What Makes Us...
A podcast exploring in how we develop as people through our experiences and connections between individuals, with groups, and amongst society. Our guests will choose the topic of discussion and share their journey of becoming who they are.
Join us as we explore What Makes Us...
What Makes Us...
In Search of Purpose with Karen Hooks
In the 10th episode of "What Makes Us," host Brian Hooks sits down with his mother, Karen Hooks, for a deeply personal conversation about life's winding paths.
Karen's story is a rich tapestry of experiences: starting work at 15, navigating diverse careers, facing discrimination, attending the UN Conference on Women in China, and ultimately dedicating herself to serving veterans at the VA Hospital. Through every transition, her unwavering commitment to be in service with others shines through.
A powerful realization emerges during their chat: despite never having a fixed career goal, Karen has always been guided by this innate purpose. This offers a fresh perspective: perhaps purpose isn't about specific achievements, but how we engage with the world.
The conversation highlights that purpose often unfolds not through meticulous planning, but by following intuitive "nudges" and embracing unexpected opportunities. Karen's profound final advice resonates: "Don't let fear rule you. Fear of success is just as damaging as fear of rejection—both keep you standing still."
This heartfelt conversation will inspire anyone questioning their path, inviting listeners to consider how they might already be living their purpose without realizing it. Tune in to "What Makes Us" and embark on a journey of self-discovery.
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If you would like to connect to the host (Brian Hooks), please reach out to bchcoaching@gmail.com or check out or website at www.bchcoaching.net
Welcome to what Makes Us. This is a podcast exploring in how we develop as people through our experiences and connections between individuals, with groups and amongst society. We will be bringing on guests to discuss how they've come to be who they are and along the way, we may end up learning something about ourselves. So please sit back and enjoy. You're listening to what Makes Us. Welcome to what Makes Us.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, brian Hooks, and today we have an amazing person with us. You know why I know? Because it's my mom, let's be clear here. I'm your host, brian Hooks, and today we have an amazing person with us. You know why I know? Because it's my mom. Let's be clear here. I couldn't have this episode. This is episode number 10. Episode number 10. Trust me, folks, it's a milestone.
Speaker 1:And so with that, I asked my mom to come on to do a podcast with me, and this is a very, actually special moment because she's an amazing woman. She has done so much for so many people not just myself and I love her to death and I wouldn't be here without her. So I feel, episode 10, I really wanted to make it special. So let's introduce my mom, karen Hooks, and today's episode. Oh yeah, there she is, there she is. So today's episode is what makes us in search of purpose, and I'm actually really excited about this topic. And, mom, we get to be a little bit more candid, right? So, okay. So this is like the insides of the Hooks family. So we're going to try to keep this PG, but we're going to keep it real at the same time. Okay, okay, okay, all right. So, as a part of this, mom, please tell a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Wow, I'm Brian's mom, asha's grandmother because we have to have Asha there and Janthi's mother-in-law, and I'm a nice mother-in-law. I am on my fourth or fifth career. I currently work for the VA as a health system specialist. I currently work for the VA as a health system specialist. I got my bachelor's at 50. Took me 30 years but I got it. And shortly thereafter I got my master's and then shortly thereafter I started working on my doctorate. But that's a little later in the story.
Speaker 1:I am single, ready to mingle, and I you know, as a son, I don't know how I feel about this single ready to mingle. I don't know if I'm ready for this mingle. That's not what this in search of purpose is all about. I don't know if I'm ready for this mingle. That's not what this In Search of Purpose is all about. Let's just be clear about that. Hey, no nodding heads, we're audio, but I see you. Okay, so let's keep this Like wow, but I love it's so true, right? I think we me and you used to joke about this. We still joke about this Every five years, right, it was. This conversation of every five years is a transformation.
Speaker 2:Yes. I'm a five-year cycle person.
Speaker 1:Right and you have done like everything Legitimately you have, I feel like you have done any job. You remember back in the day there was that TV show where that guy would go on and he would do like dirty jobs and he was doing all these crazy jobs. You know they were very important jobs but they were like super dirty. Not saying that your jobs were dirty jobs, but you've done a lot of work. You've worked in the community. You've you've worked corporate, uh, you've now worked government. You've worked all three sectors right business, non-profit and and government yes, and very varied in each of those.
Speaker 2:So I started working at 15 and I started working as an afterschool, not counselor, but I used to help the kids, like when you would go to school and after the school was over and they would have playground time and homework time and all of that. That's what I started out doing and that's when I started getting my first paycheck. And then from there I was 15 and we had just gotten back from Germany because, remember, mama Hooks, my mother had a teaching position with the government and so from 72 to 74, we were in Germany. So, coming back, I needed to make my own money because I was who I was okay.
Speaker 2:I was bullheaded and I needed to do what I needed to do when I needed to do it, and so I started. I found this position and I started working for the city of Pasadena. So that's where I started. From there I went to Bank of America. I created a resume from what I had done, from my volunteer work and my little part-time job. Done from my volunteer work and my little part-time job created a resume, and the schools at that time had work programs for kids that were taking business classes. They don't do it anymore, but back then they did and I got a job at Bank of America as a receptionist Bank of America card as a receptionist. Well, for a year they got free labor. After that year I applied and I was the youngest person that they knowingly hired, at 16. And that was because I had created a resume. So I've always believed in resumes, brian. You had a resume when you went to college because and that made a difference in getting you into your schools to outline all the things that you had done volunteer wise, because we've always believed that being of service was what you know we're supposed to do. So I started in corporate America and then the many jobs that I did in corporate America.
Speaker 2:I'm a very good collector. I was a commercial collector for many, many years but I didn't believe in collecting on consumers, on the average folk, because that meant I was going to collect on myself, because I wasn't that great at taking care of bills and things and saving money. So I always, always preferenced it by working for businesses and then I ended up in the textile industry. I was in the credit card industry for a while. Then I ended up in the textile industry.
Speaker 2:Skills in collections. I was able to take a corporate company from manual ledgers that were 13, 14, 15 columns long and putting it into the computer and getting their accounts receivable computerized. I was able to work from home. Before working from home was popular, I traveled to gosh Macy's when Macy's was in well, it was Broadway, Some of these stores that aren't even here anymore. They would short changes on the monies and I would go physically and collect those monies and that was kind of neat because I didn't know I could do that you know as as an employee and and still get you know plane tickets and hotels, and this was way back when you were three years old. I won't say how old you are now.
Speaker 1:I'm 65. You can say it, I'm not. I'm not worried about it, I'm 44. That was 1983. Well, before, wait, wait, I'm going to have to slow you down, mom because you're about to go down this really long road here. Let's get to our topic, because I think it does hit on your topic, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yes. So what made you choose, in search of purpose for our conversation today?
Speaker 2:I think what I just outlined kind of tells you the kind of person. Um, when you asked what topic you at, there was a topic there that said purpose, what, what makes us? And you put purpose and the first thing when I saw it was I'm still in search of my purpose. I have no idea. There are some kids who I just think, are born with ideas of what they want to do. I want to be a lawyer, I want to be a doctor, I want to heal people, I want to save the world, I want to represent all of those that are doing yada, yada, yada. I never had that. I watched my mom as a teacher, doant officer they call them pupil, student attendance something that's really picky but the bottom line was she was a truant officer. If you got kicked out of school, she was showing up at your house talking to your parents. When you walked in the door, my mom was incredible and because of that there are several kids that are doing so well. I don't know if you remember Magdalena. Magdalena owns eight homes.
Speaker 1:Cool. That's why I put Magdalena's business out in the streets. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I mean no, but I'm just saying it is. Magdalena is a true inspiration. She's a true inspiration even to me. I talk to Magdalena all the time and ask for advice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think, because I didn't know what I specifically wanted to be. When the teacher walked around saying, what do you want to be when you grow up, I didn't have a clue. Yeah, yeah, I've always been in search of and I don't know that it's purpose, and and the reason why I say that is because, like webster dictionary claims, that purpose is about um, something to be obtained, intention, resolution, and those are all things that are connected to goals and careers. I think of purpose more as dreams, ambitions, design and aspirations and aspirations. I had a logo on my email for the government until they told us we had to take it down that said dream big. And I think that's all I'm trying to do. And dream big is not necessarily, you know, I need to be a millionaire, I need to have the mansion, I need to have the $90 million car, but dream big, bigger for me, bigger for me, okay, I think that's I'm still in search of. I'm still in search of. That's why I have all these different careers.
Speaker 1:You know, I think, watching you shift and transform yourself, because truly you know, as as your kid, sitting on the sidelines watching watching you go from job to job, I the job that I remember is it's kind of funny was when we were in the Owl House on Pharaohs and you would come back from work and then you would come back with a bucket full of oysters and you would be shucking oysters at the table looking for pearls and these pearls would come out of these oysters and I thought that was the coolest thing in the history of the world.
Speaker 1:That was a fun job, the dining room table will be full of shucked oysters. And I'm just like I remember as a little kid I was like why are there oysters on the table? And then all of a sudden, a pearl will pop out. I was like, why are you? I remember a little kid. I was like why is there oysters on the table? And then all of a sudden, a pearl popped out. I was like, wow, that's actually a pearl. That's where they come from.
Speaker 2:That was one of the neatest jobs, but that was a fun job. That wasn't really a job that was like a side hustle.
Speaker 2:I guess now they would call it a side hustle, but for me that was just like a little bit closer to Hawaii, a little bit closer to Hawaii and just I don't know if you remember the women that would come and pick out their oysters and we'd shuck them and they'd find their pearl, my, and then I would sell them jewelry, you know, do you want to put it in a ring? Do you want to put it in a necklace? But it was their faces to see that all pearls are not the same color that's profound.
Speaker 2:You had blue pearls and people were trying to find the pink pearls and trying to find and different sizes and different shapes, and that was what it was all about and there were different people in the room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they all came together.
Speaker 2:Right. They all came together to have some fun and all of a sudden, this beautiful pearl would pop out. You make me cry, but this was. This was way back in the day. So, in order to understand where, where I come from is a background of Quakerism, which is about including everyone, the belief in inclusivity, right, everyone, and that everyone's voice matters. That has been my key to success in life and in the workplace Collaborative networking and living the lifestyle. Not talking the lifestyle, but living the lifestyle. Yeah, so it's interesting that you say pearls, we were. Mom's House was part of the Eaton Fire here in January. Tom's house was part of the Eaton fire here in January. Within a block and a half of us, brian, many of our friends and family and many of the houses that we lived in as you were coming up, burned to the ground.
Speaker 1:Right, right, all of them are gone.
Speaker 2:They're gone and we had to get the garage cleaned out.
Speaker 1:And you'll never guess what they found. Well, yeah, I can. That garage is a magical place. Let's just refer to it as the magic kingdom, because there's treasure in there. So which treasure did you find in Mama Hooks' garage?
Speaker 2:One of the girls took home the pearl case. No way, all of the pearl samples, all of them were still in there. They were all in there, all the different pearls, and she opened it up and was fat To see them. They were maybe 20 years old. They were fascinated and my mother's going oh yeah, she used to sell pearls. They're just like pearl. They had not seen so many different kinds of pearls. So it's still, all these years later, has that same effect.
Speaker 2:But that was really a neat job, until one day my couldn't stand that that I was tearing up one of her bowls with formaldehyde and uh. And so we moved on to another dream. But I, you know, I'm a good salesperson. I found that out in that, in that, in that one, that I'm a good salesperson based upon the values that I carry and the values that you carry. You're an amazing person and you've gone on to do brilliant things and I've learned from you how to carry myself a lot better. And I've learned from you how to carry myself a lot better and because I can be a little rough around the edges, but it does, wow, I hadn't really thought about the pearls Long time.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for even saying that Mom Like my heart is full right now.
Speaker 2:Well, we went from there to nonprofit. You know we did a lot of nonprofit work.
Speaker 1:So let's hold off on that, because I feel like that actually is a huge piece. There's something that you said earlier that I think I think is a theme here, one being in service. You say you said that and being in service and the work that you were doing, you had to sometimes rethink. You had to look at it through a different perspective collections. Collections could be like coal right, you come in and you're taking you're like you owe me money right, and you're taking that from people that you know is going to have a significant impact on their lives. Instead, you viewed it as a business thing. I'm only taking it from the business, I'm not taking it from the people, right, because you're still in that thought process of in service.
Speaker 1:That's what's come to somewhat of my mind of this, you know. And then I mentioned the pearls, but you were talking about the experience that these women had is 1986, maybe 85, 86 or something, pasadena, altadena area Community where pearls are considered. That's the other side of Lake Street, that's not our side of Lake Street. That's the other side of Lake Street and your people that grew up in the hood that probably never even seen an oyster, truthfully, and then the first time you see an oyster and popping out pearls left and right that they've only probably thought, only seen or heard about in a book or on TV, or on TV with some rich lady with I got my pearls right.
Speaker 2:All the black pearls, and all we've ever seen was the manicured black pearl or the white pearl, and they were all the same size you know. And so to see that in life, nothing is like that. Nothing is like that. That's man-made.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't necessarily the job itself that you brought up. It was the experience that you were able to share with those people and now is in service.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm your son, not a sir. Sir, I'm just gonna say that that's me, and that was a super level of respect that I almost feel I should deserve as your son, like whoa, whoa, whoa but it's true, and even in collections.
Speaker 2:You know, I I have to take this one story and you can edit it out if you like. But there's one story at a, at a credit card company that's no longer in business, so I won't mention their name, but anyway, this one guy was overseas and he was hot, hot, hot and his business card didn't work and they called in on the toll free number, Like you do. You know what's wrong with my car, blah, blah, blah. And he hadn't paid his bill in like two and a half months. So he's screaming and hollering at me and, you know, chewing me out, and I put him on hold. Now he's paying for it you know it's a 1-800, so it's just time and I get back on the phone and he's screaming and hollering at me and I put him on hold again.
Speaker 2:So the third time I said now are we ready to talk? And he's like yeah, Okay, when are you? Tells me where you are, what are you trying to get? I go ahead and approve it and I said now are you going to pay this bill, Otherwise I can't do anything else. That money came in right away, but it was a matter of let's talk and we've lost the art of conversation.
Speaker 1:Truthfully. No no no, that's so true.
Speaker 2:So in everything that I've done. Brian, you bring up a really good point about in-service. Can you be?
Speaker 1:in search of purpose by being in service. Can purpose be being in service? Yeah, why not, like our whole the faith that we were raised in? Quakers? Quakerism, it's all about service and it's all about working with others and in service of others. Servant leadership, you know, if you want to look at it in that context, within the leadership framework, servant leadership from Green with from green leaf, right, like that whole premise is about being in service to others. I, I prefer, I prefer with others.
Speaker 2:Right, because yes, I do prefer with others. I'm not right because serving you lunch right right, right right.
Speaker 1:Two is a little bit too, you know like you're doing the work for or to them. Right, right right.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to help you Work with right, we work with, and I want to put that out to the Vermonters. Stacy drilled that into my head. Two for with with Right, we work with Right. But yeah, you can be in service and that is a purpose I was. I think this was going to come out later on, but it kind of came out now, as we were at the beginning of our conversation, because I also am very similar to you and that I am about working in service with others. It's, it is, it is a paramount right, because that's because you raised me and mama hooks raised me right, like, but you've, always been brian.
Speaker 2:You've always been in service. I mean, that's you know, that's that's the difference. I guess I never saw it. I see it as part of an action, as part of who I am, as part of what I do. You, on the other hand and I don't mean to turn this around, but I am going to say this you have always been in service, which is the reason why your heart is so big and so pure. When we started volunteering in the nonprofit world with the American Friends Service Committee years and years ago, you were 12, 13 years old, but we had dragged you along to all kinds of things, mama Hooks and I. So you went wherever we went and you helped out whenever you needed to, but particularly when we were doing community activism, you just found a place and that called to you and spoke to you and you just reached out and were amazing, giving radio presentations. Yeah, you were on the radio, you were in print, you were in print, you were speaking and you were 13 years old and part of that was recognized by the yoshiyama um.
Speaker 1:Wow yamashiro wait, man, you went. Yoshiyama award for exemplary service to the community.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's about it's a tongue twister no, it is a tongue twister. It was it's washington dc. It was in Washington DC at the. Press Club. Yes yes, yes, it was amazing, and we got to go to La Jolla, hawaii. I got to Hawaii years later.
Speaker 1:You got to.
Speaker 2:Hawaii, yeah, but to me you always have set the example of what in-service truly means, and you've gone on in your career, in your life's journey, to do just that. For me, I don't see it as such as clear as you have. I'm also not looking at it from the outside. You have fresh eyes. It's just part of what I do, and if there's something that needs to be done or somebody needs help, it's just part of what I do, in whatever occupation I'm in. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It makes sense because that's you know the amount of people that I have sent to you.
Speaker 1:Let's be clear the amount of people that I've sent to you that were in some some level of crisis, truthfully right, like there was a point where I was helping them and it got above my head and and I reached out to you and reached out to mama hooks and said, like this is a person that I think needs some help and they're good people and maybe we can help them. And we did. We did as a family, as a community, as a family, you know, and it wasn't in pity, it wasn't in sympathy or anything like that. It was about empowering them to do what they needed to do. But sometimes you just need a little bit more extra help, whatever. That may be Right, but it wasn't taking away. You know, I think that's the other piece of it, right, we're totally, totally off track here, but whatever, I think that's the other piece of this, right, we're totally, totally off track here, but whatever, I think that's the other piece of this right. When you are helping people, it's not about taking their power away. And that's what, as I've gotten older, and I was doing working with college kids, working, all the volunteering stuff. Sometimes that volunteering thing, you know, we would go out and do a project and it felt weird because we were almost like removing this community's ability to help itself. They became dependent upon the volunteer to do something that they for some reason felt like they couldn't do themselves, so it wasn't working with them.
Speaker 1:It was that two or four, and it wasn't until later on that I really realized that I was like, oh, these are people that can be out here doing it, yet we're doing it for them. That doesn't necessarily seem right. I'm not going to play fingers necessarily seem right. I'm not going to play fingers. I'm sandbagging out on New York Drive in the hills with the really nice houses. I'm out here sandbagging this person that could come down at any point in time and sandbag for themselves. But they didn't even say thank you. They didn't even come out and say thank you so much't even come out and say thank you so much.
Speaker 1:We were super busy, we couldn't do this. No, no, no. You got a bunch of Black kids, latino kids coming to this upscale neighborhood helping you save your house from being flooded, and not a single thank you, not even a lemonade. Let's just be real Right. But at that time I felt like it was weird. But I didn't have the concepts, I didn't have the language, I didn't you know, it was just a part of the experience. But later on I'm like, yeah, that's not cool.
Speaker 2:But all of those experiences are important, good, bad or indifferent. They all are important and they happen throughout your life. They're going to happen and it's important to be able to recognize what they are, for what they are, and then you have a better, you have more tools in your toolbox in which to deal with them Right? That's part of why I get frustrated at some jobs. I'm going to take it back to. You had a question about challenges.
Speaker 2:What have been the challenges that you faced while in search of purpose? Marginalized community that had no representation to speak of, other than one small organization that was ostracized for being part of the housing community, right being in the projects? Now, trust me, pasadena projects are nothing like East Coast projects. Pasadena projects are townhomes okay, that's true, but there was no one to help with schools. There was no one to help with education. Parents were going into meetings by themselves and being chewed out. They had no place to talk to, no one to turn to. Kids didn't have programs.
Speaker 2:We had one jobs thing that happened during the summer and they tried to take it away. It was a work, a work in process and a work in love, and we took that on, and we took that on as a collaborative group, because we recognized that you had to be part of the community in order to help the community. And luckily, we were a part of that community. I grew up here, your father grew up here. We all went to the same high school, believe it or not. Everybody, we all went to the same high school.
Speaker 2:And so we were a part of this community, so we didn't feel like we were outsiders coming in to try and fix something or do good for somebody. We did an amazing job for a part-time job and remember, this gig was a part-time job because I wanted you to have some exposure and they needed somebody. So I said yes, that's kind of how everything seems to happen for me. They needed somebody and I said yes and I started as a part-time, which turned into 24-7, seven years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and which turned into 24-7, seven years, yeah, yeah, and in that time the challenge was getting people to understand that the people who live here, who are not dressed nicely, who don't drive a car, they're on the bus, they need a bus pass, who come for lunch once a month and we feed them so that I can have everybody at the table. And I had all representation from the city, the community, the youth. Everybody was at the table, including the nonprofit. They were all eating, they were quite happy with the food, and then I had someone tell me that I didn't know what I was doing because I couldn't write well.
Speaker 2:Claire, if you're listening, I have a master's and I'm almost went through my dissertation for my doctorate, okay, so I just want you to know that.
Speaker 1:Wow, I didn't know we were going to throw axes at folks, but yes, yes, that was an axe thrown in the podcast. I don't know how I'm going to deal with that, but we'll continue on this conversation.
Speaker 2:I just needed to say that, okay.
Speaker 1:That was like 30 years worth. It felt good. It looked like it did. It looked like it did Wow.
Speaker 2:I didn't do the snaps.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, that's a challenge yeah, that was a challenge.
Speaker 2:It was a challenge for folks in in high places, high jobs, to consider us small, lonely, community people who are grassroots and working our butts off and being available for everything, that we mattered, that we had value, that we had good ideas and that we were successful. So successful that we were selected to be part of the non-government organization representing women for the 1995 UN Conference on Women. We were there and our group organized a quilting group young people that wanted to quilt and their quilt I took to China and their quilt was on the wall it. It was added to everybody else's and it was on the wall of China and it's been touring ever since.
Speaker 2:Our accolades included being on the Chinese TV yeah well sewing it together, and my grandmother, seeing me on the chinese tv, scared me, but she saw me and then being in the newspaper, the chinese newspaper, with a we care coalition t-shirt from northwest pasadena that's you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was super proud of you. I I mean let's be, let's be clear here I super proud that people be where's your mom. She's in China. That's where my mom is. She's in China right now. People will be like what? What's she doing in China? She's representing women and so proud of you, so proud of you.
Speaker 2:You did so much, so much for the community, but it just took one person, one person to tell me when I came back and I wrote up my story. I'm a story writer. I've learned to be more of a technical report writer, but I thought it was important for people to know the stories, because everybody else was writing about the technical pieces of it, but I wanted to write the stories that I met, the people that I met. About the technical pieces of it, but I wanted to write the stories that I met, the people that I met, the women that I met, the ones who wanted to play in my hair because they had never seen hair braided before. Who would ask me do you do that every morning? Oh, my gosh, no. You know the people that I met on the street when I played hooky from the mandatory tour yeah, you know that gets you in a Chinese prison camp.
Speaker 1:You know that right when you play hooky for the.
Speaker 2:Chinese. Yeah, there were eight of us who traveled ahead of time on the tour, and two of us each time, each day, play hooky. We were sick and so we would play hooky so that we can go out and be in the community with real people, not just go to the museum museum very interesting, but we wanted an experience. So, um, but in that 30 days it was, it was quite an. I had enough experiences. I actually didn't need to do that, but I had enough experiences. But I'm saying all of this to say that one of the challenges was to for people to understand what we were doing, why we were doing it, and not to come after individuals. In this case, they came after me. The moral of the story is they haven't had a successful program since I left.
Speaker 1:Truth.
Speaker 2:Matter of fact, it's no longer. It's no longer. It's no longer. They tried to replace me with someone from MIT, an African-American gentleman, very nice from MIT, but he had no connection to the community because he was the outsider coming in trying to tell them what they needed to do. So those are the. That was a challenge there. And so then, what do you try and figure out? What are you going to do? At that point you were in college. That was your first year in college. You were at concordia man was that?
Speaker 1:I was like was that the first year in?
Speaker 2:college. That's, yeah, that's 1998.
Speaker 1:It was your first year in college. I mean, it's all, it's all good yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:So then it was like well, what am I going to do next? You know what? Because again, I didn't know what I was supposed to be or who I was supposed to be. You know, everybody again was asking well, what are you going to do? What are you going to do? I don't know. So I have to say that God has led me wherever I'm supposed to be, he's led me wherever I'm supposed to be, and I don't know if I don't know how consciously it happens, I just know that it happens. Does that? I was trying to figure that out?
Speaker 2:Jobs I've never been out of work unless I wanted to be, and the one time I wanted to be I got a job before I got unemployment. So it's like come on. So I've always worked, but I've also always been willing to try something. I think that's the other thing, and nothing is beneath me. You know, I cleaned toilets on a train as a porter on a private train, and that blossomed.
Speaker 2:It went from me taking a trip on a train to can I clean your train? Because it really does need to be clean, because it needs a woman's touch. And the gentleman said yes. Doug said yes, and next thing, I know I was cleaning the train every week for $100. But I also got to ride the train for free. It turned out that not only did we ride the train, we had a fundraiser on the train, we had a couple of fundraisers. We took many friends on the train. We had a fundraiser on the train, we had a couple of fundraisers. We took many friends on the train who have never experienced riding on a private rail car 1951 Pullman rail car and I started serving the food because his food was not the best. So I started going to the good bakery and started cleaning up his act and all of a sudden his train was prospering and he was asking me to go all kinds of places on his train.
Speaker 2:I you know. You just don't know where things are going to lead you. You don't know where God's going to take you. But these folks I mean again, these folks had never seen and never been on a private train before and they had incredible experiences. I had incredible experiences with them. I had some people who thought they were very entitled and didn't tip me and I went out of my way for them. One of them I even fell, but he was OK. I kept him from falling. His wife was very nice. One of them I even fell, but he was okay. I kept him from falling. His wife was very nice, but he just figured.
Speaker 2:I'm just the border and all the way down to the woman who was actually on the commission for LAX Airport. She was a commissioner, she was a pilot, she was incredible and she and I talked for hours. We talked for hours and she was just, she was a phenomenal person and she said thank you. She wanted to know when I was coming back, because there were a lot of people were like we like your desserts, so when are you coming back? But a shout out to Porto's, but it just, it was something that I never would have expected, you know, and because of the relationship of being on that train, we introduced Brian, you got to go on. We introduced so many people to private, the private rail industry, and then it's available to us. It's not just the rich, it was us that can go on a train and have a first-class experience. So it was those kinds of things. I can only say it God, I don't know, yeah, yeah, that's a great, whatever your spiritual is't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a great spiritual is.
Speaker 1:you know. Well, you know there was a I did a podcast with a gutsy Clark, and a part of that podcast was her. You know we talked about evolution. You know how do you evolve. Hey, you were my first person that I thought about when when this conversation, when that came up right, that I thought about when this conversation, when that came up right. Because she's an entrepreneur and she's always in this state of change and always evolving. She has ideas. What she calls it is the nudge. She gets a nudge, she feels something that's uncomfortable and it's nudging her to go in that direction, and that has been her movement. Now, of course, let's just be clear here African-American women are, truthfully, probably one of the most blessed women, blessed people in this world of God's grace, and it's whether or not you are open to that grace to be able to to, to truly, you know, take advantage and it is truly fill, fill that grace and move forward with it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I, I completely agree with you. Right, Like the, the nudge, the, the movement, the power that's there, that's telling you this is the choice, this is the direction to take.
Speaker 2:But we don't often listen. Now, trust me, there are some times where I probably should have listened and I zigged and I zagged. You know I often wonder if I had gone this way what would my life have been. But I'm very grateful.
Speaker 2:Despite all the craziness we're going through at this time in the climate in government, I'm very grateful for all the opportunities, the work as it is, the people and the experiences, the people I get to help are probably my biggest bonus when I was working in nonprofit in the Hollywood sector and I was making good money. I didn't have a degree, but I'm a very smart woman and I believe that you bring, you take all that you've learned with you to every job you go to. You may not use all of those things, but you take those tools with you because you never know when you're going to need them. And so, working in this one nonprofit, I guess I got too big for my britches and the executive director that was there realized that the people were calling on me before they were calling on him, and he got a little upset.
Speaker 2:Plus, he had some personal issues, but he got a little upset about that and he told me that I was never going to go anywhere because I didn't have a bachelor's. Well, I had been going to school off and on for a number of years, take classes here, take classes there. Well, that was enough to piss me off. I was going to show him. You know, really and truly, sometimes we do things. Now, you know, I'm sure I've gotten nudges, callings, probably somebody screaming in the back of my head that I should have finished that degree long time ago. But it was because I was mad at him that I was going to show him that I could do it. So then I said, well, fine, if you want me to do it, you pay for it. And they agreed to pay for some of it. So I went ahead and I finished and I brought it back to him, and then he said, well, I didn't, I just did this out of the kindness of my heart. I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm not boo-boo the fool, I am not boo-boo the fool. And we had to go through some legal issues and of course, I prevailed. After that I said I'm going to get my master's Now. This meant that I was going to be a degree higher than him and he was making obscene money, and I guess he thought that money was what I wanted. And that's not what I wanted. I wanted to prove to him that not only can I outdo you, but I can outdo you with class and ethics, because that's what I felt. He was not ethically managing the nonprofit's funds Right, right.
Speaker 2:So I started my master's and it got to a point where it became combative and I have to admit that I wanted to walk out. There were days where I did not want to go in, there were days where I just wanted to walk out. I didn't understand what I was doing, except for that I needed to get that master's. And I sat down one day and I asked God, what was I doing? Why was I doing it? And I was getting my master's. I got my master's in gerontology, which is the study of aging, and I told myself well, this is so that I can better take care of my mother when she gets older. But then, when I started looking for jobs, I didn't find anything that was paying anywhere near what I was making before. So I asked God to provide me, to help me help the largest number of seniors that I could help.
Speaker 2:Shortly thereafter I don't even know the time, but I saw the VA was offering internships and I had to go to this meeting in order to find out how to fill out a form. And I went to the meeting and I thought, oh well, I'm not going to get this. You know what have you? I'm my own worst enemy. And I filled it out anyway. Here you go, the nudge. The know what have you. I'm my own worst enemy. And I filled it out anyway. Here you go, the nudge, the calling whatever fill the dumb thing out. So I filled the dumb thing out A year.
Speaker 2:It only came into play. Your last year of your master's. So the last year of my master's I got the internship at the VA. Now, here again, you're not sure you asked for it, right? Be careful what you ask for. So I got over there and I'm in the orientation. I've told him you know, hey, I'm leaving. Da, da da. I got the orientation.
Speaker 2:It was about a six-month process and they hand me my salary on a piece of paper and I said I've never seen this piece of paper before in my life. I can't work for that. And they looked at me and I said I'm sorry, I don't know what this is. This is not what I agreed to. I've never agreed to anything like this.
Speaker 2:It was about 20,000 less than what I was making at that time, and I could not figure out for the life of me how I was going to do it. And so they said well, do you want to stay? I said, sure, I'm here, I'm going to stay right now. And they said well, we're going to try and find out for you and come back. Long story short, came back, it's $20,000 less. I went to my car at lunch, cried and called Mama Hooks, called your grandma, and I said I don't know how I'm going to do this. She says, oh, we'll figure it out. And, lo and behold, I went to work for the VA. That was 2015. So it'd be 10 years in October. Since then, I've had some incredible experiences in building outpatient clinics from the ground up, providing care for the largest number of seniors I've ever known, and it has been. It has been phenomenal.
Speaker 2:It's almost time for this is 65, and I'm a five-year psych person. So it is time to start looking at what's next. What's the what's the next phase? It's, it's been, it's been interesting. How do you overcome challenges? Sometimes it's just by stepping one foot in front of the other and just going for it, because you just don't know how it's going to affect your life. It brought me to you in Seattle, being at the VA.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2:I was able to transfer to Seattle so I could see my beautiful grandbaby being. Didn't see her being born, but I was there when she was born. Yes, you were, and you know just experiences in Seattle that I will hold dear with me and people that I have met, and again, a number of people that just needed some help, needed somebody to talk to. Furniture that we donated that is still being used all over the place by people who needed it. So I guess, wow, maybe being in service is a purpose. I just never thought of it that way and I guess because I think of purpose as a goal, or you know, like I said, of purpose as a goal, or or you know, like said intention, you know it's, I want to be a medical doctor, but what does in-service look like? I guess this is what it looks like for me. Yeah, I think very personal for me.
Speaker 1:Now, wow, yeah, wow, because that that's real. I I completely agree with everything that you're saying about purpose, because purpose doesn't necessarily mean it's the. It has to be a very clear, specific, realistic, timely goal. Right, it doesn't have to be a smart goal. No purpose is what you value and where you want to take and move your energy towards and well well said, well said, well said.
Speaker 1:I think you've lived that well. You've lived in service with others. Uh, it has been a guiding principle, without knowing it was a guiding principle. I think that's Without knowing. It's a guiding principle, right?
Speaker 2:I didn't do it on purpose.
Speaker 1:But you were purposely placed in service of others, with others, for others, with others, with others, with others, for others, with others, with others, with others For others.
Speaker 1:We don't do two, we don't do two, we don't do two, but we have done four. But no, truthfully, mom, that's a beautiful. I mean, I am so thankful to be able to have you here in this conversation and just in my life as the role model. Right, You're the model for me. Okay, don't make me cry, boy, sorry. Sorry, we'll tone it down. I'm sorry. I'll remove some of that heartfelt stuff. Okay, no, I'm choking up over here myself, so we'll keep it good.
Speaker 2:But you also had a village, brian. I think that's important for your listeners to know that you need a village.
Speaker 1:You do, you know this podcast, what Makes Us and even though we're in the 10th episode, there's only been maybe like one episode With Prithi there's a person that I is not connected to me like do a lot of stuff, and maybe a couple other folks right, uh, there's probably, I would say there's probably like three folks that are more newer, a part of my communities and interactions, but the other folks and the people that I've been thinking about who to connect with are all part of this.
Speaker 1:I call it like this web is Brian's web and you know, and as we've talked about what makes us, it kind of comes back to also what's made me right. Each and every one of these individuals you have are a part of me and a part of my experience in this world and and and growing my perspective of how we, of how experience in this world and in growing my perspective of how we, of how I navigate this world right and you're right, like I grew up in the village and I referenced that, and I'm trying to build this village for Asha. Yes, yes, you know, I want her to have her village and she has people that she can connect with and feel safe with and feel that she can experience things to make her grow to to, to have her sees something better, right like we moved to india for that right.
Speaker 2:She's able to see a different way of life. That's so important. In order to appreciate what you have, you have to explore and you have to be open. Those who go traveling and are still the same hard-headed people don't get to experience what life is really about and see people for who they are, where they are. That's so important.
Speaker 2:I never forget when you were going to Kenya, I had the big house in Norco with the big pool and the big backyard and we had a huge party and one of the great pieces yeah, that was a great house One of the pieces was like it wasn't a totem pole, but it was a pole that had arrows. It had arrows, you know, to Kenya, to Los Angeles, and we had people from everywhere that came that were part of your village and your villages is. Everyone has a village, If you acknowledge it or don't acknowledge it. That's one thing. But you have a village. The people that are around you not necessarily all family, but the people that help shape your life, the people that you feel safe to talk to. You don't have to talk to me, you can go talk to any one of them. I trust them. They're part of your village.
Speaker 2:We always had elders. That was part of our lifestyle. We always had elders and so we want to recognize our elders, we want to support our elders, we want to celebrate our elders and our elders love to celebrate the kids. They love to celebrate the youth because they can see that they had a small part.
Speaker 2:And when you went away to Kenya, people were just partying like crazy. They were just partying like crazy because it was such a celebration that you were selected in leadership to go to Kenya to help further your own growth in leadership. But it turned out you became just like we knew further your own growth in leadership but it turned out you became just like we knew a facilitator on the conference. We knew you were going to be in charge. You were large and in charge and we knew that was going to happen.
Speaker 2:If anything wasn't right, Brian was going to take care of it. They're at the back of the game. Brian's got it, I mean, and it was just. It was such a celebration and your life has been like that and but I'm really glad that Asha is having the experiences that she's having, actually kind of jealous. Asha is going all these different places, seeing all of these different things but, more importantly, she's learning about the people, she's learning about the customs, she's learning about tradition. She's a sponge, she's such a sponge and it's just beautiful to watch, and that's because of both you and Janthi.
Speaker 1:You know what's funny as I knock the mic here? So Dugama, our housekeeper, so she, so Asha, takes Kannada lessons. So that's the dialect here in Karnetika it's Kannada, and so Tuguma speaks Canada. She also speaks Talagu and Thumbel and stuff, and so she's cleaning the house and she was talking to a. She said something in Canada and Asha responded in Canada. Wow, tuguma came out of that. Did you know that girl speaks Canada? You're crazy. She said it in Canada, she said it in Telugu. I was like what's going on? She had this shocked look on her face. I was like I think Asha shocked her. She's like what is the Kamoana? Yes, she had Canada class, you know, this week in school. So you know she's got to learn Canada and she absorbed it like quick, but yeah she is amazing.
Speaker 2:She is amazing that young lady, whatever she chooses to do in life. Whatever she chooses to do in life, she will be successful and we've already seen that she is willing to help.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:She's willing to help folks, and so you're already teaching her to be in service, and that's a beautiful thing, brian.
Speaker 1:You know, as you're talking about it, that's lessons learned. Lessons learned Because I picked that up from you, you picked that up from Mama Hooks Yep, right, yep, and previous episodes, previous podcasts. We stand on the shoulders of great people and it's not me, I didn't get here by myself, you know, and every day, you, you, mama, hoods, everyone helps me be better. So, as we are, we've, we've like blown through our time. You know, this has been such an interesting conversation, right, we had these questions, truthfully, folks, audience, I had laid out some questions because mom wanted something to kind of guide, post her through this and we had blown those questions out of the water. I think mom touched on it because I, you know, that's it. We didn't even really, so I'll do this one question. That's from this list. What would you like to share with the audience about being in search of purpose, because I think today was a pretty, a pretty big day in you kind of kind of coming to some aha moments in our conversation. What would you like to share with folks?
Speaker 2:Don't be, don't let fear rule you. Hmm, Fear of success is just as damaging as fear of rejection. It has the same outcome you stand still, you don't move. And during this current climate, fear is so prevalent at my job and I have so many people walking into my office and they're just, they're breaking down. They don't that need medical. They have seat there in the sandwich group. You know they have kids, they have grandkids, they have kids and parents and grandparents some of them and we just need to not allow fear in our lives and keep moving forward. If it's a nudge, if it's a calling, if it's the wind feeling the wind, if it's our children, our family, we just need to be what I now know in service, Whatever that looks like for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's beautiful. I think that's our new family model in service.
Speaker 2:Wow, I never knew.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Thank you, Mom. We said that at the same time. Thank you so much. This is powerful. I love you too, Mo. With that note we'll end our conversation, our podcast today. I want to thank you for being you and for raising me Happy 10th Congratulations. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for listening to what makes us make sure to rate or review this podcast on apple podcast or spotify or send it to a friend who you think will enjoy this podcast. Thank you for sharing your time and see you soon.
