a "Mama" with Sue Ann

Motherhood doesn’t just add a title—it rewires identity, reshapes priorities, and reorients how we move through the world. In this intimate episode, we sit down with Sue Ann, a longtime friend and former colleague, to explore how stepping into “mama” transformed her career path, her sense of self, and her approach to parenting.

From a smooth pregnancy that pivoted at 37 weeks to a breech baby and a planned C-section, Sue Ann shares how fear gave way to acceptance—and how small, intentional choices made a clinical process feel deeply human: a clear drape, the first cry, and skin-to-skin within minutes.

We go beyond birth stories to talk about the realities of early feeding. The myth that babies “just know” how to latch collided with triple feeding, sleep deprivation, and lactation consults that changed everything. Sue Ann reflects on what shifted with her second child: less noise, more intuition. She shares why “mama” feels right for this season—anchored in safety, comfort, and closeness—and how she’s crafting a parenting style that protects without overcontrolling.

Borrowing a model from student development, Sue Ann imagines parenting as a tandem bike: the child steers, while the adult provides balance, asks questions, and brakes near the cliffs. The goal? Discernment in a world overflowing with information.

We also talk lineage and love. Acts of service from her own mother—meals, laundry, quiet presence—taught Sue Ann how caring for the caregiver sustains the whole family. Together, we reflect on modeling values, embracing firsts that become core memories, and the lifelong nature of this role.

Whether you’re expecting, a new parent, or simply curious about the inner work of raising humans, this episode offers grounded insights you can use: trust your instincts, curate your village, and adapt as your child grows.

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Thanks for being amazing!

Transcript

Show Opens & Topic Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to What Makes Us. This is a podcast exploring and how we develop as people through our experiences and connections between individuals, with groups, and amongst society. We'll be bringing on guests to discuss how they've come to be who they are. And along the way, we may end up learning something about ourselves. So please sit back and enjoy your listening to What Makes Us. Welcome to What Makes Us. I'm your host, Brian Hooks, and this episode today is What Makes Us a Mama. I'm blessed to have an amazing friend with me here today, Sue Ann, who I have known for a long time. We are co-worker, former co-workers, because we no longer work at that place. And we have uh been friends and are reconnecting, right? This is a reconnection. So I'm super excited because uh she is going to razzle-dazzle our conversation today about what makes us a mama. Um, so Sue Ann, please tell a little bit about yourself and what inspired you to choose this topic of being a mama.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Awesome. Um, thanks for having me, Brian. This is very fun, uh, fun way to reconnect. Um, because it has been quite a chunk of time since we last chatted.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I know, right? Right. I I pieced out and then was like, I'm going to India.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

Um pieced out, and then shortly after I became a mama. So haven't had a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

I know. So this is this is fun, right? Because um, I get I, you know, you saw me become a dad um and got to see Asha. And I I kind of feel like I missed out on you get to being a mama. So this is this is actually really cool that we this is like closing that loop. So I'm really liking that.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Me too. Um, so just a little bit about me. My name is Sue Ann. My pronouns are she, her. Um, I'm in the greater Seattle area right now. Um, and I'm a mama to two. Um, I have a three and a half year old and a six-month-old. Um boy and a girl. And um they are the best and have totally transformed my life. Um, when Brian and I knew each other, we were working in student affairs at a university, and he always knew I wanted to be a mama because I talked about it all the time. Um, but I hadn't found the right partner, hadn't found um it hadn't been the right time yet. Um, and then found the right person to have a family with and um yeah became a mama and um have been super lucky, I think, to have yeah, two healthy children. And I I used to have a lot of um my my life totally changed in all ways. Um what what's been important to me, how I prioritize my time, why I why I how I find meaning in the world. All of that has changed since becoming a mom. And um that's I think it's just so salient to who I am now that it felt like a no-brainer as to what topic I'd want to talk about because I live and breathe being a mom and it's what I it's what I do, it's who I am. Um and sometimes maybe in ways that should be like shifted. Um like I feel like people will ask me, like, how are you? And I'm like, Oh, my kids are so great. But that's not the question. That wasn't the question, but it's just my go-to because my like pulse is based on how they're doing. Um, and it obviously impacts my energy and my mood and everything. So um yeah, that's um yeah, me being a mama. I I'm also I I do work still. I work outside of higher ed right now. I transitioned from working in student affairs to um working in recruiting coordination for a tech company, um, which was a pretty big shift. Um, but I think for so many reasons, it was the right shift for me and has let me have different space, I think, to be the mom that I want to be. Um, and so I think everything happens for a reason and has led me to who I am today.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

Awesome. Thank you so much. And um, that was an amazing intro because it leads into so many great questions here. Uh well, the first thing that came to my mind was, you know, so what changed? What was it that changed from not, you know, Sue in working student affairs to Sue in mama? Like, what changed?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah, um, everything, Brian. Um I mean, I think like there's just so like me being responsible for me as an adult human is so different, I think, than me being responsible for a tiny human who my tiny human is, you know, now three and a half. Um like not only like when you know, for me, like during my pregnancy, like I, you know, fed a fetus or whatever, right? Like did all of that to grow a fetus, and but mostly he just did his own thing, and it like it's it's crazy and like a different conversation about how cool the like human body and and like a the female body specifically is with growing growing life and growing new organ uh one new organ um to sustain that life, and then your body just like doing what it needs to do, and um so like out came this tiny human and I had to feed this tiny human and had to make sure that it was healthy, and you know, humans um you know, there's there's like stuff around the fact that like human babies are because of the size of our brains and because of how they need to come into the world, like they're born really, really immature, and it is our job as their parents, and I feel especially as a mama, like it's my job to protect this tiny human and make sure it continues to survive as best as I can because it's so helpless, and all it wants to do is be close to the mom, especially, and feel safe because it was safe inside a warm hot tub in my body for nine months.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

And I just feel this immense responsibility and the love, you know, you're a parent, Brian. Like the love that you feel for your child and children is just so like totally like whole body encompassing and is so different than love that you feel for friends, for partner, for family. Like it's just it's just different.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

It is. No, no, I totally agree with you.

Breastfeeding Struggles And Support

SPEAKER_02 7:46

And and so I think all of those things happening. I think my um my first kid, we had some challenges with breastfeeding initially, and so there was extra stuff that I was holding, I think. Once we were able to we did a lot of work to get to a place where we could exclusively breastfeed. Um did long days and nights of triple feeding, and um it was exhausting and it was a no-brainer for me again because this is what I wanted. This is the journey that I wanted for for our feeding, if we could do that. Um and it was a lot of work to like find that find that rhythm with me and this tiny human who has zero skills. I feel like in those like childbirth classes, they tell you, oh, the the like kid, the baby's gonna naturally just know how to like drink boobs and climb up on your little, climb up on your body and just latch.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Right, right. Not true.

SPEAKER_02 8:51

I mean, they they have an instinct, certainly, and they know how mommy smells, but like they're not skilled, they're not coordinated, they got a lot of learning, and it's like a two-way learning street.

Breach Baby And Planned C-Section

SPEAKER_00 9:05

And um yeah, I we had it, you know, we also had a very similar experience because um Asha, you know, had some struggles initially latching on, getting milk. Um, and that is a process all its own, right? They that's why they have lactation coordinators, right? The people that show up in your room, shout out to Swedish Hospital because they really helped us in that first week of ACHA being born. And and we had some, you know, we had some medical issues um with weight, and our sugar, Acha sugar was were like super low when she came out. Um, she was supposed to, they were like, Yeah, you're gonna have a nine-pound baby. And then she comes out, she's six pounds. Like, uh what's really different? Right. And it throws you for a loop and um all kinds of stuff. And you know, I you know, as you're talking about it, the bond between the baby and the mother is significantly different than the bond between the father and the baby, right? Because, right? Because you have that nine months of of caring, raising, growing this child inside of you. Uh, and then you know, that connection is so much stronger. Um, and I and it's a beautiful thing. It's a truly a beautiful thing, but there is a significant difference between, you know, and then even afterwards, right? Like breastfeeding, like, you know, putting as we would do skin to skin, right? So that you know, Asha would get familiar with me, understand my own taste and smells. I'm like, whoa, that that boob doesn't no milk out of this boob. This boob is a no-milk boob. I'm sorry, let's give you to your mommy that has the milk boobs, because I do not it it did make me self-conscious about my my boobs, though. I was like, wait, are they can you are they unrecognized? Are do they recognize of no no hold on here? But um, yeah, it's totally true, totally true. Um kind of going backwards here real quick, what was your you know, what was your pregnancy? How how did your pregnancy go? Yeah, um, and what was that experience for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah. Um I think the journey for people to grow their families is so individual and um can be filled with lots of like highs and lows. Um we were super, super lucky, and I feel like I was like faded to become a mom as soon as I like was ready with my husband. Um and we like stopped birth control, waited a month, and then pretty much the first time we tried.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Oh, congratulations. I feel like that's it. Yaze! Like, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

Yeah, we were super lucky and um had a very smooth pregnancy. I'm I feel like it must be in my genes because my mom has shared the same thing, but I I never had morning sickness.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Whoa, don't tell people that. This is a podcast. This is gonna be some upset mamas out there.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Um and like, yeah, like very smooth pregnancy. It's you know, it took us all my babies, don't like their pictures taken when they're in the uterus, I guess. So when we did our anatomy scan, it took three visits to get all the photos that we needed. Um but otherwise, like it wasn't until our baby, we at what is it, 37 weeks they checked positioning of the baby? Um he was breached.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

And um, that was a big surprise. I I had like in my head, I had I had only been thinking about am I gonna want medication, pain meds, or how how like how am I gonna like have the vaginal birth that I want to have? And I I hadn't even considered what would happen if he was breached. I that wasn't like it wasn't in the realm of possibility that I was thinking about, and then he was breached, and I was like, oh god, and I like cried a lot just because it was like totally separate from like my not seven, eight month birth plan or whatever that I've been thinking about. Um we tried a version to flip.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

I was gonna say, did you try to try to do the rotation?

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Um and the OB did a great job trying. He used a lot of strength. It was very, it was a very weird sensation, like having a like, you know, full grown strong man like trying to like hold onto my belly and like physically manipulated to like move my baby. And uh, I felt like my baby kept he like slid, but then was like nope, and then just slid back. And his butt was like, I I feel like I feel like I felt him flipped like a little bit before that. And I felt like he was head down for a while and then was playing around and then flipped, and I feel like he was just like, I'm not stuck, and um so he he did not, they were not able to flip him. Um, and it took me, you know, a day or whatever. I don't know, like enough time more time. I think it took me time to come to a sense of peace around the idea that my baby knows what is best and what is safe for him. And even though this was not in the plan, like my baby knows what is best. And if he and he knows that the way that he's gonna come into the world is through a belly birth. Um even though it wasn't what we had been thinking about for eight months or whatever. Um and so yeah, ended up having a C-section um that went smoothly. I feel like I I honestly, like if you're gonna have a C-section, a scheduled planned C-section is really nice. You get to have a little bit more rest. You like can like use the antiseptic soaps or whatever to make sure that you know, every the outcome of a C-section is gonna be the best it could possibly be.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Um, he came out and he cried out right away. And we, you know, we had a very I was with midwives actually uh throughout pregnancy. Um was then with um obviously an OB for the version and then for the actual C-section. And um I was at I gave birth at a hospital that is very supportive of future VBACs is um they had a good relationship between the OBs and the midwives. And so this OB was like, I get that this was not in your plan and you didn't want to work with me. Like, you don't want to work with an OB. You wanted midwives for a reason, and this is not the way that you you wanted it. So we want to give you the birth experience that we can as much as we can give it to you, the one that you want, given that it's gonna be a C-section. So, you know, we had a clear drape. Um I think my husband probably saw more than he wanted.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Oh, that's that's too much for me.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Uh and and like, yeah, like he pulled the be he pulled the baby out and held it right up to the clear drape. So I got to see him pretty instantaneously and he cried, and and then you know, very quickly after they brought him to the warning table, like brought him. I got to do skin to skin right away.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, wow, that's uh that's impressive, husband. Like he was full act, fully a part of the uh process there. Uh that's yeah, that says a lot.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yeah, and we had a we had a duela there too, which was great. And obviously, like they, you know, they support all births, but different than the births that they were mostly preparing us for. Um, but you know, I'm so glad that they were there or that she was there because when my husband then went over to the warming table to check on the baby, like she was still with me, telling me through like what they were looking at and what was happening, because this is my first and only surgery ever. And yeah, it was I was it was scary. Like it was, it was, I don't know, it was just yeah, it was like more nerve-wracking than I had expected.

Doulas, Midwives, And Feeling Seen

SPEAKER_00 18:20

And uh that's uh but thank you for sharing that because that's a I mean, each right, each birthing is unique, you know. We also, you know, were thinking of a vaginal birth, and it ended up being an emergency C-section. So, you know, we knew potentially, right? There was like one of those like, okay, if it happens, but then all of a sudden it was like, no, this is actually happening. Um, and it was very scary. And I yeah, you know, I I had I did not have a transparent screen. I they were they they drove that thing down, and I did not see, I did not see, and I did not want to see. That would have that would have ruined my whole mental aspect. But um, you know, everything came out fantastic besides besides also being the low, low sugar. So um, but yeah, you know, we have a doula as well, and I would highly recommend to, you know, those folks out there looking, you know, interested in in having a kid. Having a doula, having a midwife is I would I would say amazing help. Amazing help.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Um 100%. Yeah, finding a place that actually allows you to do that and it's welcoming of the of the of the doulas and the midwives is um crucial. And being able to have a a really nice birthing story. Because that as you know, as a parent, you're like your kid doesn't know all about that, they don't care, they're coming out. But as a parent, like for me to be able to reflect upon that, it's huge, huge, huge that I get to have that experience. And I'm glad that you had such an amazing experience. So that is yeah, that's super cool.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Um, yeah, and I yeah, I mean, the doula was the only person who was with us the whole time, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Like both for the birth and then for the initial, like making sure that maybe it was latching initially, like for initial recovery. And we were super lucky. Our our doula is the best, Josie Wright. Shout out, she's the best. We're looking for doula, Josie Wright, Josie Wright. Um, and she was she was she was a doula pair. We we had a doula pair for our first birth, but she was then she was our doula again for our second birth. Nice. Um, so we just that continuity, like she feels like a part of our family because of how she was a part of these really incredibly intimate moments. I had a totally different second birth. Um, so uh yeah, I mean, do can't shout out enough. Doula's are the best.

Why “Mama” Feels Different Than “Mom”

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah. You know, Washington does an amazing job with doula, like the state of Washington, especially uh Seattle, uh, the doula community there is really, really good. We also did a pair, shout out to Mercedes. Uh she did amazing for us as well. Um, so yeah. So what is so in your mind, what is the difference between a mama and a mom? You're like you're very specific about being a mama. So I kind of want to highlight like what is the difference for you between those two?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

It it might be like an age thing, sort of like uh my kids are young, they're very young still, and so to them, I am mama, I am safety, I am protection, I am comfort, I am boob, I am yeah, that like safety and like their they're like centering, sort of. And I feel like mom feels like a I'm growing up, like you're not my mama anymore, like you're not my mommy, like I'm more growing up, I want more independence, like I still love you, but you're not like my safe harbor in the way that I feel like I am for my my babies right now as their mama, as their mommy. Um and I I I think yeah, like I think for me that's part of it. And I think the the choices that I've made with my parenting style, the ways that I am prioritizing my kids and the ways that they need me really deeply and time consumingly right now. It's this phase uh that there is it will end at some point. They won't need me in this very particular way. Um, but for now, like that is what mama can bring to them. That's what their mommy can bring them. And um it's just the phase of motherhood, I feel like that I'm in right now. We'll see. Maybe in 10 years, maybe I'm still gonna think, I mean, I'm gonna still think of myself as like a mama, a mommy. Who knows? But like I don't think I mean, I I am a mother, I am a mom, but I don't know. I I'm just like I'm a mama right now.

Helicopters, Tigers, And The Tandem Bike

SPEAKER_00 23:17

You you know, as we're talking, you're in you're totally enjoying it. I can see the energy and the and the smiling of bringing up the fact of being a mama, you're totally enjoying it. And that's and that's how it should be, right? You should enjoy it, even through all the pumps and late nights and bit and boobs and all that kind of thing, it to really live that up. Um so you know, our career, our former career in student affairs, we would always talk about those moms and those dads that were hovering that you know, we the lovely names we had for them, helicopter parents, the tiger moms. Do you find yourself thinking about thinking about like, will I end up like that? Or am I gonna be different?

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Yeah, I am fiercely protective of my babies. Um and my tiny zodiac is a tiger. Um which is I don't, yeah, I mean I mean, I think I like I think it is my responsibility as a mom to shift how I am being a mama depending on the needs and developmental like where my kid is developmentally, which feels very student affairs, meet them where they're at, right? Um and right now I am I'm I'm slow, like as a you know, a three-year-old going on teenage years, whatever, but like um I, you know, I really ascribe to that like tandem bike philosophy from our student affairs days. Shout out Marsha Baxter Gold.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Um you gotta you gotta explain the tandem bike. Explain it because you brought it up.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

So yeah, I will, for sure. So there's this idea when you think about student or you know, human development that um in this case the educator, and so if you think about it in the student affairs context, the educator is on the back of the bike, the student is on the front of the bike driving their experiences, and it is the job of the educator not to drive the bike, but to be on the back, ask the questions to help the student really figure out their own path, but make sure that they're not gonna fall off a cliff. And I think that's my job as the parent as well. Um I think when the kid is younger, there might be handlebars in the back that I'm breaking on sometimes that as the as the kid gets older, as they get older, as they become more independent, as they become more skilled both physically and emotionally, um I'll be able to let let off a little bit. And I want to be able to be fully on that back of the bike when they as they grow and develop, but I want it to be developmentally appropriate. Um I think I think it is my job again to like protect my kid and facil and help facilitate their growth to become an independent human in the future who's able to be a critical thinker and make good decisions in a time when like you can't just trust the information around. Like there's a lot of like sifting of information that has to happen because anyone can put out information and there's just a discernment that needs to happen with what what is what is true, what feels right for you. Um and so like a kid's like a little human is not born knowing any of that, and it's our job to help g give skills and teach skills, I think, along with you know a a village of support or whatever. But but but I I think it is my it is my job the most um to be a part of that learning and growing experience for my kid. And so I don't want to be a helicopter parent. Um and also like it'll still continue to be my job, I think, to protect my kids and um maybe help maybe I don't I don't want to like be the person, I'm certainly not planning to ever be the person who calls the Res Life office asking if uh we can go wake up their kid for class and not gonna do that. Um that's too much. But um I want my kid, I want my kids to be able to critically think and ask questions for themselves. And maybe I will I want to be a partner with them to to help them learn how to and model how to ask those critical questions so that they can make good decisions on their own.

Modeling Values And Being The Mirror

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yeah, totally. That's the uh student affairs coming out on you. Um and I I'm right with you. I'm right with you. Um uh what is it? You know, coaching has kind of given me this thought process of as you're talking about the tandem bike, coaching talks about it in the sense of uh the passenger car. The you know, we're in the car. The my coache, my client is the driver, and I'm just the passenger. Kind of give a little bit of navigation, ask a couple of questions, is this the right direction? Again, just being there so that you know the driver doesn't fall asleep and at least they can figure out where they want to go. Uh, it's a lot more hands-off. But I think the tandem bike is a good illustration with some emergency brakes on the back, right? Because, you know, uh giving my kid the opportunity to explore, really, because that's you know, I I thank my mom and dad for letting me explore and giving me experiences, right? And I have to say I thank my grandmother, because I got the most through my mama hooks, interesting mama hooks. Um she took me to so many places, and I got to see and experience so many different things and so many different people. Um, that even now, as I think about it, I reflect upon those experiences and like, oh yeah, that did happen. Okay, maybe I should we shouldn't do that. Um right. Um, so that helped broaden my worldview. Like I never really thought I was just a small space. I think sometimes when the person doesn't, a kid doesn't get outside of theirs, you know, zip code. Let's just put it that way. They don't get outside their zip code. They're they have such a narrow view of the world. Um so yeah, so I do think that. Has there been anyone in your life that has been that as you think about your own self as a mama, is there someone that kind of has been that symbol for you or has been that role model to a certain extent of the type of mom you want to be your, you know, and you don't have to say your mom. You don't want to, but you know, I'm just I'm just wondering about that.

Choosing Parenthood And Its Demands

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Um, I mean the I I'm gonna say my mom. Like I think that my mom has taught me a lot about what are the traits of what are like what are some of the traits that I want to bring that I've wanted to bring to being a mom, uh a mama. And I think I mean I still call my mom mommy. So I don't think any other grown person does that, but I do. Um I think my my mom was has always just Like been that like rock for me and has always, you know, when I when I think about my childhood, like she's just you know, she was always super super supportive, always there. Even the ways in which she still continues to be my mommy now when she has grandchildren, is like is just so it it just I think continues to like reaffirm like how she is as a person and how I want to be with my family. And um, for when both of my kids were born, like she came and stayed for a month plus, and she made sure to take care of me so that I could take care of my baby babies. Um and you know, there's like certainly like some like there's some traditions in Chinese culture around um like the one month period after birth of like you know, regaining nutrients and like what are some of the foods that are like most easy to digest that are like help or like helpful for bringing in your milk and I don't know if I believe in all of that exactly, but it was delicious having my mom cook for me for a month. Um not gonna say no to that. Um and I think the reality is that like she she like she shows love through acts of kindness or acts of service. Um and like so feeding me, making sure like laundry was done, making sure that um if I needed a break that she could hold the baby, like that's how she was also when I was like a kid, right? Like she like I you know, I a dance was a has been a big part of my life for a long time. It's it's a little bit on pause right now during this phase of mamahood. But um, you know, I like came home from kindergarten one day and I was like, I want to dance, like I want to take a I saw a tap dance in the talent show and I want to do it. And my mom found me a class and we, you know, was was dropping me off at class all the time, went to my competitions, went to my recitals, like didn't know a lot about how to do like stage makeup or like do hair, different types of hair things, but had to like figure it out to like because that was like important to me. And um so just I think the way that she has just it has just been there for me. I think it's a lot about how I show up as a parent. Like I as I sort of mentioned maybe in my I think in my intro, like I I'm choosing a very it's not a very specific, unique way to mama be mama, but for me, like I I'm really I think putting my kids first in a lot of ways, and I think a lot of people would have asked and probably would critique and be like, you need to spend more time on yourself. And I think that is probably true. Like, I need to spend spend a little bit more time for me, and also like again, my babies need me right now in a very particular way, and a lot of that is just being there with them, yeah. Um and being able to be that person that like when they need comfort, they just start my like toddler. He just yells mama and starts running towards me. Even if he doesn't even know what he wants from me, like that is that's really special. And I I want to be able to be that support for him so that as he grows, we could continue to adapt our relationship, and I can still be there to support him in different ways. And it's um and I think my mom showed me that, um, whether consciously or subconsciously, but I think I think she has shown me that. And and again, she's continued to show up in that way for me. Like, and she she's known, like either it's it's either she's known or it's just how I've been raised, and so it's what I expect, sort of, but like she has been the support that I've needed when my my babies have been born, and every time she and my dad come to visit, like they continue to like do those acts of service, they continue to like help make sure that like I am fed and taken care of, and my kids are fed and pick taken care of. Um, and yeah, she just continues to be my mommy.

Constant Change And Learning As Parents

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Nice, nice. That's beautiful, that's absolutely beautiful. Um, yeah, I you know, it makes me reflect upon my own mom. I'm like, yeah, yeah, right. As we walk this world and as we are parents, it is important to really I, you know, I had to sit down for myself and think about, you know, what type of dad I wanted to be. Um, and what were the things I wanted to emulate? Because I also came from that statement, like even though I don't want to be a role model, um, you're still a role model, right? This this little child is gonna be emulating, is gonna be imitating what they see from you, good or bad. Um, and you have to be okay with some of that bad because you know that is a part of who you are. Um, and I think sometimes that's kind of the hardest thing is it's a reflection, right? It's the mirror. So if you see them do something, especially as they get older, and you're like, where did you pick that up? And they look at you like you do it all the time, and you're like, ah, yeah, that's true. Okay, I need to figure that out. Um, yeah, you know, and you know, I, you know, that at one point there was this saying of, you know, do do as I say, not as I do. And that always rubbed me wrong, especially as a parent. Because then I was like, you're not walking the walk, right? Like you're not, you know, if you're gonna say not do this, then you probably should not be doing it either. Um, and that's something that I think for myself now, right? Like, if I'm gonna ask her not to do something, I I should be at least not doing it myself or hide it really, really, really well.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

Do it after she's asleep.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

Right, right, right, right. When when doors are closed, you're by yourself, and you know you're not gonna get caught. No, but at the end of the day, still though, right? Like as a role, my as a person that they are going to be looking up to as they are learning from, what is it that we're teaching? You know, and and I really didn't realize how much my friends and the outside factors when I got older significantly impacted my perception of things to the point that I had to unlearn those things. And thank thankfully I had I had my a good role model of my mom and dad to be able to say, like, you know what, this I know this isn't right, and I need to, I need to check myself. But that's because I had that opportunity, right? I had that uh I had those models because not everyone has those models, unfortunately. You know, parenthood isn't for everybody.

SPEAKER_02 37:46

Yeah, I feel like since becoming a mama, I have really reflected on like if if you're not a hundred percent sure you want to be a parent, it it's just so it's so much work. Um, and it is hard, beautiful, challenging work, but it's still work. Like that's just the reality. Like it's just a lot of time and energy. And if you're not a hundred percent sure you want to be a parent, like I I think continue to reflect until you're right, like you're 100% sure because it just really is too, it's it's just so much work, I think.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Um yeah, it's it's it's demanding, and it's a demand that is life, that's a life thing. Yeah, yeah, it's not that's not like 18 and you're gone. People be like, 18, you're out there. No, no, no, no, no, no. That is for life, yeah, yeah. They're coming back, and at some point you want them to come back because they're gonna need to help you as you get older.

Firsts, Wonder, And Family Memory

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Yeah, so yeah, yeah. And I I think one of the things that I it's funny, I I like feel like I thought about what it was gonna be like to be a parent, but I've realized that like the way that I thought about it was in a very like vague, unspecific way. And you know, I it's funny, my my husband, his our like brain, we complement each other really well, and our brains work really differently. And so he like tries to visualize lots of different scenarios so that he can like think about here, what are the ways this might happen? And I was like, I'm gonna be a mom, and it was like I I didn't I like didn't think through like what what the like details could mean about that, but one of the things that I didn't think about was the fact that when you are a parent for me, like it's been your your kids change daily, weekly, like they just change so much. And again, like I think your the parenting that you do can't be the same because your kid is changing. Like as your kid changes, they need different things, or they need different challenges, um, or they need support in different ways, right? Like, and so I feel like I'm constantly learning. Sometimes it's a little faster than I want, and I feel I have capacity for, but I'm constantly learning how to be a person and and really especially like a mom to my kid to meet the needs that they have today in this moment. Um and I've read a lot. I'm I feel like I'm well, I have a lot of books about like toddlerhood on my shelf. I've read some, not enough. I they're all like they're constantly just on my list to read, but um yeah, just it's just a whole different way of like being for me. And again, like that's part of why just this topic just felt salient because every like I feel like every like tentacle of my being just has has to be different because the the needs are just different and like the my priorities are just different. And yeah, so yeah, I'm constantly learning, and that's something that's important to me. So I guess it's a good thing that I get to do that being a mom and being in this most salient identity for me. So yeah, but it's something that I didn't think about beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

That's interesting. Uh the issue now is that there's some rationale to it, you just don't understand what the rationale is. Like why? Wait, wait, you put two and two together and you came up with like that's not even close. But okay, I love you, and you're smart enough at least to try to put those two things together. So let's let's work from there. Um it's it's as your kids get older, you will see the uh just the light bulbs, like just literally see the light bulbs flash of like when they get an idea, and you're like, Am I gonna let you run with this idea or are we gonna need to put a kibosh on this quickly?

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Like I think it's the coolest thing getting to experience life again from the eyes of a kid. Yeah. Because everything's new and it it's it's so cool. Um and it's like a nice like reminder to pause and just like be present in like what is happening. And I think that's beautiful too.

Advice To Future Mamas: Trust Yourself

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yeah, I you know, I actually enjoy the first because there there gets to be this whole new monumental first. Like one of the things when me and Jancy were dating, as Jancy was coming from India, so I got to experience a lot of her first, like her first time to Disneyland, first time to this place, first time trying gumbo, first time trying like all these small things that are really like milestones. Um, and now with a kid, you get to you kind of get to set the milestones, right? Like, okay, we're gonna take you here for your first test, your first this, your first test. I I also love it when it's all of our firsts, right? That's a such a super experience when all three of us are like, oh, we've never done this before. This is pretty awesome. And yeah, you know, that's what those memory, that's what that memory we come back to and we're and we rejoice in that first. And so that's what I've learned so far. It's like firsts are like super invigorating. Um and and they and they stick. That's one of the few things that really sticks as an adult, as a parent, um, knowing that we did this as a first, as all three of us or just her. So it's a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, it's a lot of fun. Um, well, we're coming up on time here. What would you like to share with our audience uh around this topic? What's what is some uh knowledge you want to drop to those future mamas out there?

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yeah. Um I think I think it is easy to get consumed by all of this information telling you what is right and wrong and how how it is right and wrong to be a p a mama and a parent, um whether that's related to feeding your kid, whether maybe whether that's related to how you um both like feeding your kid with with milk or formula or whatever, and feeding your kid with solids and how you sleep with your kid, and all these things about what is right and wrong. And I got bogged down by that with with my first in a way that I think was not helpful. Um I think I was th things didn't feel like they were working based, but like they were like what I was supposed to do, and and it wasn't until I realized like I I like you're we're like born to be parents and born I was like born to be a mama and I have instincts and my instincts are valuable and they're right for me and my kid and my family, even if other people are saying, like, oh, don't think about it that way. Like all that noise is just noise. You need to figure out what's right for you and your family and your situation, your kid. Um you know, do it safely and whatever. And you know, it's like good to do research and like learn about things, but ultimately, like it doesn't matter what all these other people are saying if it's not right for you and your family.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Um and so it's it's been this whole different experience having my second because I didn't have that noise this time around. And the these first six, you know, almost six months since she was born have just felt really different. And I feel like I've been able to be in a lighter space because there are different challenges with two, but but like in terms of like how I I trust my instincts now as a mama, and I don't I don't need other people trying to like dictate to me how it is that I should be. And it's super freeing the second time around for me because I don't have to worry about that noise. I just don't care about it, and um it's hard not to listen to that noise because there's just so much of it and we're so embedded in just like information everywhere. But as much as possible, I think like trust your instincts. Like there are so many things that came so like there were things that were hard, but there were things that came more naturally, and like my like my natural instincts were they were there, and there were things we had to learn, but even as we like started to learn with this like new partnership with this baby, there were things that I just that felt natural for us that maybe won't be natural for other people, and that's okay because it doesn't like it's your baby and it it's you're you're the mama and it doesn't matter, it just doesn't matter what all that other noise.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

I appreciate you so much, and I'm really, really excited to meet your two kids. Like at some point we gotta be able to connect. Whether you come to India or I come to the US, I have one of those two. Thank you so much. And I I feel like this is such an inspiring story for future moms and current moms. About, you know, get rid of all that noise. Do do what you naturally feel inclined to do and just make sure that you are putting your kids first. You know, like make sure that they are the top priority there. Um, but also take care of yourself. I think you also highlighted that with your mom taking care of you. Um, and I think that's uh also something that we should really cherish um and treasure. Uh so yeah, thank you so much for this amazing conversation today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Thanks for having me, Brian.

Closing Thoughts And Sign-Off

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Of course, and we'll have you again. Thank you for listening to What Makes Us. Make sure to rate or review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or send it to a friend who you think will enjoy this podcast. Thank you for sharing your time and see you soon.