Uncomfortable with Prakash Nathan

A single sentence at a graduation ceremony can rearrange the way you see your whole life: “Learn to be uncomfortable.” That line hit our guest, Prakash Nathan, so hard that it sent him back through decades of decisions where discomfort wasn’t just present, it was the engine of growth.

We talk through the moments that shaped him, starting with a childhood leap into an English-medium school where he felt lost, scared, and behind, then slowly built fluency, friendships, and confidence. From there, the pattern repeats in bigger ways: an early-career detour to Rajasthan for intensive training, adapting to a new climate and culture, and later an even tougher stretch as a CEO learning to work with government and bureaucracy when everything in him wanted to avoid it. Along the way, we pull out practical mindset tools for handling change without spiraling into overthinking.

We also dig into career growth in a way that’s useful whether you’re just starting out or reinventing yourself: vertical growth versus horizontal growth, why being “thrown into the deep well” can build real leadership, and how delayed gratification (hello, marshmallow test) connects to resilience in an instant-everything world. If you’ve been feeling stuck, overly comfortable, or unsure which risk is worth taking, this conversation offers clarity and a push to experiment.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Discomfort Theme

Brian (Host) 0:28

So please do it. You're listening to what makes us. Welcome to What Makes Us. I'm your host, Brian Hooks, and today I have an amazing uh conversation. We're going to be focused on what makes us uncomfortable, which has so much to unpack. I'm with my really good friend Prakash Nathan, a fellow coach, and I'm really excited for this conversation today because there's so much to unpack with what makes us uncomfortable. So, Prakash, uh please tell us a little bit about yourself and what got you interested in this topic.

Prakash (Guest) 1:10

Great, Brian. Thank you for inviting me to your podcast. And uh really looking forward to this conversation. Uh so we are fellow coaches, so that is really my current avatar. So I I have I have lived through many avatars, including uh being the eldest son uh in in uh born in a place called Travandrum, which is in Kerala State. Okay, and then did my education in Kerala by and large. Uh moved through various jobs, various cities, uh got married, have two wonderful daughters, and uh now closer to the age of 60, I'm kind of repurposing my life. So I don't know whether this is a good enough introduction, but I I guess uh the the way in which I would I would like to do this is probably uh tell more about myself through the stories as we as we go along.

Brian (Host) 2:22

Right. Yeah. So and and what so what is uncomfortable? What you know, what is our our topic today? What where

A Commencement Line That Stuck

Brian (Host) 2:30

did that come from for you?

Prakash (Guest) 2:31

Yeah, so it's it's kind of interesting, uh Bran. Um you don't really reflect too much on life until somebody prods you to do that. And that is really what coaches do, right, in our community. So uh I was at the uh undergrad uh graduation ceremony of my second daughter. Okay uh this happened at the University of Wisconsin and Madison, US, just after COVID uh year 2022. Uh the lady who was the commencement speaker actually brought in a very interesting topic. Uh she was some I I don't remember her uh credentials, she was definitely an alum, but uh she was some high-ranking official at the United Nations. Okay and uh she was telling the the graduate students that if there is one thing that I that I want you to take away from today is please learn to be uncomfortable. So that kind of kind of struck a chord. Um and and without realizing uh when I went back and reflected on my life, I felt that I've been living what she was actually telling the students. So I said, wow, this is this is really profound, and and I told my daughter that this is really very good advice uh because sometimes we seek comfort, and I think this is really neuroscience, right? I mean uh you want to be safe, you want to be comfortable, and you don't like changes. And therefore, you really do not put yourself in situations where you're uncomfortable. And uh so so the the ladies message I think is kind of kind of stayed with me, and and uh now whenever there is an opportunity to to be with uh youngsters, I actually talk about change and being uncomfortable.

Brian (Host) 4:59

Oh wow. Yeah. That that's uh that's that really makes a lot of sense, you know, because as I as I think about it, right, as you as you brought up uncomfortable, there's so many different directions you can go with it. And there's so many different areas that we can talk about. But this is uh, you know, when in my when in my life have I felt uncomfortable to the point where you know I can actually feel it. Um and it that's what triggered for me. It was like, oh, I'm I'm kind of like now reflecting about like what does that mean? And then where, and was there change tied to it, right? Because I think sometimes you know, uncomfortableness can be kind of a you know, depending upon the context, right, of the situation. It can be uncomfortable with someone next to you, or it can be, you know, uncomfortable in what you have to do, or something like along those lines. That's what's coming up for me. Um I'm intrigued about you know this conversation of change and uncomfortable. Um, and particularly, you know, what is the message that you share with the youth when you know when you're engaging them around these two areas, uncomfortable and change?

A Nine-Year-Old Learning English

Prakash (Guest) 6:14

Yeah, I think I I just want to go back uh uh and answer that question uh uh through a story uh which happened um when I was when I was pretty young. I think I was about nine years old. And uh and and the place where I was studying had only uh vernacular or local language uh teaching. And uh my parents and grandparents uh decided that it would be good for this boy if he moved to a city uh which offered uh education in English. Um so uh my parents were uh far away from the city that is where uh he was working at that time, and it was not possible for him to move. So I was told that uh uh just go, uh stay with your grandparents, and uh um this is the school that you will be joining, and this is uh English convent school, and uh you have to become comfortable with English. Uh so then the school obviously asked me to write an uh exam to test my proficiency in English, and I flanked because I didn't really know English at that time. And uh uh but the but there was apparently a deal between my grandfather and the school uh headmaster that uh you you take this boy for a year, and if he doesn't perform well in English, then uh we will take him out of the school. This I didn't know, of course, at that time. And uh the school gave me admission, and uh in the first three months, what happened was the entire medium of education and communication was in English from from the teachers to the students, except of course there were some vernacular uh language subjects um and I was absolutely uncomfortable. I said, what is happening? Um so my my biggest test at that point in time arose with the challenge of being comfortable with English language. Um okay, my my grandparents uh and my aunt kind of supported me with respect to giving me some kind of private education in English. But the challenge was entirely up to me because I knew that if I want to even make friends, I cannot be a person who doesn't be comfortable with this language. So the the first one year, and and I remember uh we have we have uh three three exams throughout the year. Uh so the first uh trimester exam um I I barely scraped through. Um and uh I remember crying before going for the exam and uh my aunt kind of gave me a lot of courage to say that nothing is gonna happen, you just go and attempt it. And the second trimester exam, I was slightly comfortably above the past grade. And in the final trimester exam, I was I was okay. I I was not I was no longer afraid of this demon called English.

Speaker 2 9:57

Right. Okay.

Prakash (Guest) 9:58

So that was really my my first real experience of being completely uncomfortable. And the the whole thing which taught me about this whole incident taught me about being uncomfortable, is really the interplay between short term versus long term. Yeah. So oftentimes what happens is we are we have to become uncomfortable in the short term for you to be comfortable in the long term. And we we never realize that, right? Right, right. And and obviously I did not realize it at that time. So when I when I look back and reflect on uh that particular decision and that particular age, which somebody else took for me, yeah. Obviously, they did not consult me whether is this good for you? Are you are you comfortable staying away from your parents? Are you okay in your grandparents' place? Nothing. They said this is good for this boy in the long term. And uh so so uh what I remember more was being uncomfortable with English language, that was also uncomfortable uh being uncomfortable with the new situation, surroundings. You have to you have to make a new set of friends, you're staying with your grandparents, etc. Yeah. But uh but the but the critical thing for me when I realized, and and uh when it comes to came to grade 10, which is really the what do you call barometer for uh university admissions in in Kerala at that time, I was number two in the school uh in in terms of academics. Uh I was a member of the uh college cricket team, and uh uh I had uh tons of friends. Um I was I was uh my uh my division prefect. So there were a lot of things going for me after that, right? And and I think that whole journey started with how do you tackle this demon called English, which I have not played.

Brian (Host) 12:12

Yeah, yeah, and I I mean that's an amazing story. The the first thing that came to my mind was perseverance and persistence, right? Like, especially at such a young age, to kind of just kind of get thrown into uh just a completely unknown environment, um, and have expectations kind of thrusted upon you of like, hey, know this, get to know this language and be able to be proficient in it so that you can stay here. Um, I think that's I mean, I don't know if we can do that now in this day and age, but um that's a that's an amazing story. And um just shows a lot about just the courage as a nine-year-old to make it happen, right? And the perseverance to go through each of those steps and and to make it. So that's uh that's an amazing story and a great example of uncomfortable, right? But I loved how you ended that with you know, the uncomfortable is the short term and the long term is the comfort, right? Like you're only uncomfortable for that short minute for a little bit, and you become comfortable because you've persisted, you've you've stuck with it. Um, and whatever that uncomfortableness was, you were able to overcome it. Um and and at the end of the day, you know, what your grandfather was hoping for you came true to a certain degree, right? Like second in school, uh, you know, second in the school, you're highly proficient, you're engaged in so many different ways. Um so that's a that's an amazing story about uncomfortableness um and change. Um yeah, I don't think many of us will will have such a kind of drastic moment of like getting thrown in there. Uh, but that is that is great. Uncomfortable, you know, the the thought process of being uncomfortable and in seeing it as a growth, right? Like that's a that's that's the time of growth. But most times when we're in the thick of it, we're probably just thinking of surviving, right? Like I want to get through this, not necessarily like, oh, I'm I'm gonna grow from this experience. It kind of is it's after it happens that you get that opportunity to grow. Is that is that kind of true through through your life experience at this point when it comes to uncomfortableness?

Prakash (Guest) 14:46

Absolutely, Brian. Uh the the fact that universe has a way of putting you in a spot without you realizing it is something which I have I have kind of kind of lived lived through in my life.

First Big Move And Rajasthan Training

Prakash (Guest) 15:11

Sorry, I'm I'm jumping into another story. Okay.

Brian (Host) 15:13

So this is what the podcast is for, so you're good.

Prakash (Guest) 15:20

So uh so I I I finished my my my great ten uh went to uh the university college of engineering, uh finished engineering, um, and all this happened in the comfort of my uh parents. Oh my parents have moved, uh they moved back after about three years from this English language episode. And uh I don't know what what triggered this. Um once I finished my engineering, there was uh very pressing internal force which was telling me to get out of this state. You are not going to grow if you stick and stick with your parents, find a local job, and do what many others might have opted to do. So there was this general tendency to say that at least at that time, yeah, you you have you're now a graduate, you you know you'll you'll hopefully get a job. Uh so why don't we get you married? So so I didn't I didn't really w want to fall into that local trap. And I maybe that was the reason there is this whole internal force which is telling somehow get out, go and explore the world. Don't stay here. So I was writing various competitive uh exams for uh enrolling in in corporates. I had I was fortunate uh that I was selected. I think out of 10 exams and interviews I attended, I probably got selected in nine. So I had a problem of plenty. And all the jobs, all the jobs were outside of the state, so I was very, very thankful. And uh then I then I ended up choosing a job which I thought will put me in Mumbai, okay, or Bombay as it was called earlier, uh, because there was, I would say, a little bit of comfort with Bombay because a couple of my aunts uh lived there, and uh I had been to that city before. And uh there was there was some kind of an attraction to to Bombay, right? But when I landed up, uh they they selected they had selected about 150 of us from various colleges. Uh they said 50 of you are now being sent to Rajasthan uh for special training in nuclear power plants. Okay. Uh you will no longer be in Mumbai. Ah, I said, Whoa. Now I'm I'm supposed to go to Rajasthan. I had I had no idea uh what that place is going to look like. And um so so the the 50 of us or or majority of us travel by train and then uh we reach one afternoon. Um and and this is not a city, okay. This is a nuclear power plant, running nuclear power plant, uh, which is obviously not in not in the city, it is uh about uh about a couple of hours from the nearest railhead. And uh so we we arrive uh one afternoon, and obviously there is no lunch, and all of us go to the local tea shop, and uh okay, tea is fine, and what do you get with tea? So they serve what is called as a kachori. I don't know whether you have you tasted a kachori.

Brian (Host) 19:16

I yeah, I've had a kachori.

Prakash (Guest) 19:18

Right. Uh so I have not tasted it before. I said, what is this? So uh one of the local uh person from North India explained this is some dal stuffed in Dau and baked and whatever. So I ate it and it was a very strange experience for somebody who hasn't experienced uh uh this kind of a food, specific food. Right, right. Um and you were in you were in the middle of a desert, you had uh um few friends, uh few friends who speak your own from your own state, for example. That was the comfortable part, but largely those are comfortable because you're suddenly thrown from Mumbai to Rajasthan. And so when we when we landed up, I think the weather was okay. But we we um see coming from Kerala, you're not used to extremes of weather.

Brian (Host) 20:15

Right, right. Kerala is pretty yeah, Kerala is pretty like you have a nice moist moisture, it's it's humid, uh it's still warm. But then Rajasthan is the desert, so you get the dry heat, that's absolutely so we had to we had to go through that phase of adjustment.

Prakash (Guest) 20:36

Uh living in living in a hostel, which was actually a converted old Canadian school. So I don't think there was Canadian assistance in the nuclear power plant. Canadian children was uh studying there, and it was a converted and getting used to the local food. Um and uh the only way I thought I will manage uh the menu uh in the hostel uh was becoming the representative of the trainees uh to manage the cook. So I used to go every every weekend to to the vegetable market and then figure out what is how can I convince the cook, who is a North Indian cook, to cook something more palatable for us South Indians, right? So but but the whole experience um of that 10 or 11 months was again throwing me into uh learning to become uncomfortable. Yeah. In in a situation where uh you're not really used to, you're not prepared for it even. And in and in those days, uh you had no cell phone. Um uh I used to write regularly every 10 days. I used to write a letter to my parents. Uh I used to receive a letter from my parents. So they were also uncomfortable saying because. Get in touch with this person, he's not in any city, he's in some far-off place, right? So the only way of communicating with your family was through uh the the snail mail, which was basically the letter, which you look at. And um you're getting comfortable with new friends, you're getting comfortable with the local food. Uh but we did find one dosa joint, this I must tell you.

Brian (Host) 22:31

You gotta you gotta have the dosa. If you're if you saw you gotta have a dosa. That's a that's a buzz.

Prakash (Guest) 22:37

Right. So you're you're you're you're learning to live um instantly in an uncomfortable situation. But what happens is many of those friends and and other families who are living there actually embraced us because obviously for them, this is a ritual that happens every year. And for us, it was so we became part of the community, we we we celebrated Diwali, we celebrated New Year with them. Um and and uh uh some of us ended up using the club, which had a fantastic table tennis in badminton court. And and uh obviously uh not only us, the other other community members also kind of played. So so the I'm I'm coming back to that same point that sometimes life throws you curved balls, and uh and and it happened with one gentleman, okay. Uh amongst the close to 45 or 50 people who were sent to that that training for 10 months. One gentleman actually sent, I can't live here after 45 days. He left. He said, Thank you very much, I'm going back home. Right? Um, and he was from one of the South Indian states, right? I don't know which one, but um he said, I'm I'm done. I'm off. Right? So this also happens. Uh yeah. You so what what it actually did, but but but the good thing that happened, uh obviously there is a happy ending to this story, but is at the end of uh 11 months, I was offered uh uh to go back to Mumbai to be part of the project group. And the project group of this whole unit actually sat in Mumbai. So I was able to able to uh be uncomfortable in a sense for the first one month and then everything was fine. But I knew that I had to find a way to get back to Mumbai for other reasons as well. Yeah. Because I wanted to pursue my management education, and I I I needed to be in a city to be able to do that. Um so so luck actually favored me at the end of 11 months, and I was back in Mumbai.

Brian (Host) 24:57

Yeah, yeah. It just it was like a little detour. Right, right. Like the detour changed.

Prakash (Guest) 25:03

Absolutely, absolutely.

Brian (Host) 25:05

So,

How To Handle Discomfort Without Spiraling

Brian (Host) 25:06

what what is it that you have learned about yourself in these moments of uncomfortableness? Like what is it that gets you through to be able to get to that good outcome, right? Like, how are you managing uncomfortableness?

Prakash (Guest) 26:13

Yeah, I think I think on reflection, um I think what has really helped me, Brian, is not to overthink a situation. If you overthink a situation, the chances are very high that you will go back to your comfort zone. Again, uh a quick story, I won't, I won't, I won't make it too long. So there was uh so there was uh Bombay happened, management education happened, which happened in Bangalore. Um I joined uh multinational in in in Bangalore. And there was this, then I then I was asked to kind of move to Mumbai back again. So I said, I'm very comfortable with Mumbai, let us go. Uh but of course, when I when I went to Mumbai, uh my assignment was uh actually to set up a very large project with private finance deep down south. And uh I was asked to raise a lot of capital for this project, and that was my main assignment. Luckily, everything went well over a period of three years. Uh, we actually uh raised the capital. The project went into construction, and uh the chairman of my company was very pleased with me. He said that uh this guy can be basically thrown into the deep well and he will figure out a way of coming out by himself, right? Um so so one day he called me to his office and said that uh I still remember his words. There is this assignment that I have for you, uh which means going back to Rajasthan.

Speaker 2 27:56

I said, wow.

Prakash (Guest) 28:01

And uh but he said this is a job which will require you to learn a lot of new things because uh we have set up this joint venture company with uh the local government, and uh we need somebody of your caliber and expert expertise to assist the local government to raise a lot of private capital for many of the investments that they're planning to do. But this will mean you have to work with government, and you haven't really worked with government. That was really uncomfortable for me because one of the things uh that I I've seen my father work in government and I've heard many stories. My first job was in a government organization, but what we call as a public sector organization.

Speaker 2 28:52

Okay.

Prakash (Guest) 28:53

Um and working with government somehow I felt that can I avoid this? I mean, why am I doing this? I mean, I have to I have to uh figure out how government works, I have to deal with bureaucrats and other officers. I was honestly, I was not comfortable at all. So I was trying to figure out a way. I I told him, no, my first daughter is uh um has already been in a is in a decent school, she's going to grade one, I would like her to continue to be in Mumbai. Can you give me another assignment? Um my younger daughter was just born at that time. But he was he was unwilling to listen. So uh so he told me this is the words that I remember. He said, uh Prakash, uh, do you want to be a big fish in a small pond? Or do you want to be a small fish in a big pond? So I got what he was saying. He said, okay, I can give you some assignment in Mumbai, and you will be one of the many, nobody is going to recognize you. But this is an opportunity for you to be uh the big boss, the CEO of that company in Rajasthan. Then I checked with a couple of my friends, they said, even if you hang out here, nothing is going to happen with your career. You might as well go and take the risk. So I said, okay, I'm going. Okay. So so to, and and this really put me in trouble with my family because they said, what is it that you're doing? I mean, aren't you concerned about your daughter's education? Will you find a school admission there? Is the company going to help you? Company was not going to help me, that I knew. So I had to go there and figure out daughter school admission, a house to live, completely make new friends, and start to be comfortable dealing with government and the 18th bureaucracy for the success of the company. And and uh by the grace of God, uh, at the end of three and a half years or so, I had I had done a it's not only me, but along with the team, done a very decent job of putting a solid foundation for the company. The company is still alive and kicking, right? So so the the whole thing of not really wanting to deal with government, but when I when I actually did that three and a half year assignment, it really helped me understand how government works, which which became useful in the second half of my career, right? When I had to deal with government in any case, because that is the nature of the business. Private investment in infrastructure was the business that we were in. And invariably you had to deal with government. And you make some friends, uh, you understand how they work, and hopefully that will help uh going forward, which I did not realize at that time. So that's why I said the moment you overthink, you may not decide, but okay, think about it, as long as there is nothing fundamentally wrong, just go ahead and jump in and take it because on reflection, after 60 years, I I feel that universe always has a plan for why some things are coming your way. Yeah. Right. And uh your job is to take those opportunities and then see what happens. Don't think too much.

Brian (Host) 32:36

Wow, that's uh that's profound there. You know, the universe has a plan. And it seems like the universe, the universe's plan was to try to make you as uncomfortable as possible through through many aspects. Because, you know, just from your stories, right? Like it's you know, taking these risks, because that was a that was a risk. Uh doing something that you had never done before, but your you know, your CEO saw that, yeah, you can you can do this. If there's someone that can do it, you can do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's amazing of how much growth just from you know taking those opportunities. And I I wonder if we are in the space in this day and age that people are willing to be uncomfortable, to take those, you know, if the opportunity is not a comfortable opportunity, are you willing to take that risk? Uh and and and see where it goes, right? You have no idea where it's gonna end up. Right. Yeah. What is it that has kept you saying yes to those risks, to those opportunities of being uncomfortable? What keeps what keeps you saying yes to that?

Prakash (Guest) 34:00

Brian, honestly, I don't know. So so the the the strange thing is uh in this in this whole long career that I spent with that company, uh, where we were doing a lot of pioneering work on bringing in private capital for the country's infrastructure. I was never in one location in the same job for more than three to five years. So um so there is there is this whole concept of, I mean, I I I just want to want to highlight how people grow in organizations, right? There is there is what is called as vertical, vertical growth. Vertical growth essentially, I mean you let us say you join the finance function and you end up uh retiring as the CFO or the CEO,

Big Pond Choices And Horizontal Growth

Prakash (Guest) 34:59

right?

Brian (Host) 35:00

Right.

Prakash (Guest) 35:00

So that is really vertical growth. You're you're an expert in a domain or or in an area, and then you continue to develop your expertise and you manage that function very well, etc. etc. And you see where it goes. Nothing wrong. Uh I'm I'm not saying one thing is better than the other. But strangely, um for me, I I never planned to be a CEO, but this this this Rajasthan stint, I became the CEO of a unit uh at the age of 38. Okay. In the company's history, I was really the youngest C designated CEO, right? And I held a similar uh CEO position in multiple other ventures subsequent to that. And all of them kind of lasted for uh, like I said, three to five years to bring to start up a new idea, bring stability to that business, and then move on to doing something more interesting.

Brian (Host) 36:11

Right.

Prakash (Guest) 36:12

Um maybe it is a temperament, or maybe it is a temperament that I have that um I get bored with repetitive stuff. Maybe it is a temperament that give me a new challenge and I will take it head on.

Speaker 2 36:29

Right.

Prakash (Guest) 36:30

Right. Or somebody else outside of you saying that any new challenge, let us throw the ball to this guy. I have the trust and confidence in him that he will tell you. Right. And when it comes to you, you feel recognized, you feel happy that somebody else is trusting you, and um you go ahead and then plunge into the new assignment. Yeah. But but one thing I have also realized is when you when you do this, what I am now calling as horizontal growth, because you're getting different domain expertise, you're working in different geographies, you're working with different sets of people, is that do not do it just for the sake of flipping. This is this is unlike flipping jobs. This is really uh moving from domain A to domain B to domain C. But one thing I was I have been very conscious from the time I became the CEO of that first company was that when you leave, make sure that that unit or that company is self-sustaining. Do not leave it in a state where the company is dependent on you. That I have been fundamentally very conscious. So, what that has done uh on reflection is two things. One, it has allowed me to uh become a champion for converting new ideas, and second, it has also offered opportunity for the teams which worked with me to personally grow themselves. Right. And and what it has done, and I can I can say with with a lot of pride that um a lot of my colleagues who were with me have have gone on to uh to undertake much better assignments on their own. Um and uh many of them are still in touch with me uh on a at a personal level, not really at a professional level. And uh so I I don't really have an answer to the question why why you think it is happening to me, other than the fact that it is it is universal's plan, or it is the fact that I don't really overthink, or uh the fact that this is something that I enjoy doing. I don't I don't enjoy doing only one thing at a time uh and and do it for life, right? Yeah. So so for me, I'm I'm very I over a period of time, I I don't say uh this is this is what if if you ask me as a 10-year-old, uh, is this the kind of life that you would like to lead? I don't know what answer I would have given. But through various experiences, including the first one of English language, I think I have been fortunate to be thrown into the deep well and asked to come out of my own. Um and and invariably every time I have been successful. Yeah um and uh that I I I still believe it is God's plan. Okay. Totally. Uh so so that if you if you look back, uh has it has it made me a better person? Has it made me more confident? Um has it has it improved my ability to learn and grow? Right. Uh I think the answer is a resounding yes.

Speaker 2 40:19

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Prakash (Guest) 40:21

So so my my final point in in this in this whole topic of uh being uncomfortable and change is is my belief when I reflect, is that it's an equation where uh the more you become uncomfortable, the more you welcome change, the more you give yourself opportunity to learn and grow. So it's a choice, right? Yeah. Uh and and uh invariably I have kind of walked the path of being uncomfortable and seeking change or welcoming change. And that I I believe has contributed to who I am today.

Brian (Host) 41:04

Yeah. Yeah, thank you for that. Because that's I I think that's a real nugget right there, right? Because it is a choice, right? And it's it's a choice of how do you respond. Because, you know, so many people uh uh when I was working with with college kids in and even with myself, we would always say challenge your comfort zone, step out of your comfort zone. You know, that's where you're gonna find, you know, the best experience or the most you can get out of that experience, even if it's bad, right? Like you can still learn something from it, and and it's up to you on how you use it. Um, and the stories that you you shared in your life experience is got is is just that stepping out of your comfort zone and being willing to trust yourself. I think that takes a lot of trust. Trust in yourself, trust in your skills to be able to figure out how to get yourself out of that deep well that you know that you've been talking about. And I and it's rare. I think that's such a rare thing nowadays of people willingly, you know, getting themselves out of their comfort zone. Um and uh being, you know, and willing to stretch. I think that's the other thing. Like my my my mentors would always say, are you stretching yourself? Right? And I think that's that other space of uncomfortableness, right? You're you're stretching yourself, you're going beyond what you perceive to be your limits and willing to do that. And I think that's, you know, I don't think we do that enough sometimes. I think as I as I've gotten older, I've now consciously said, like, I need to stretch myself. I think when I was younger, you know, the situations will come up and I'd be like, what uh uh what's happening? And I and you're kind of like you said, you're kind of forced into it, and you're forced you have to grow and you have to, you know, you have to stretch yourself um to figure things out. Um and and and you're right, yeah, that's you know, it's amazing stories of like of being willing to from being forced into it to actually making the decision yourself to to go and and take that path.

Prakash (Guest) 43:21

True, true. I I want to add uh Brian, one one thing related to so so food and travel is is also my passion. So there are again, I'm I'm not saying one thing is better than the other. So there are there are a lot of people who are uh very happy in their own town, own city, right? Own culture, own cuisine. Okay. But for me, whether it is because of my my palate desire to explore, uh I love traveling. I I love to meet local people, I love to understand local culture and more importantly, understand uh the local culture through food.

Travel, Food, And An Experiment Mindset

Prakash (Guest) 44:21

So and and uh in our house, it's really a potpourri of you can you can you can name a dish and we will hopefully figure out a way to make it. Serve it for you, right? Right. Uh and that is all because of this whole family thing of family holidays and um uh wanting to experiment with food. And and we come Comfortable with some things that are not necessarily from your own backyard. Right? Yeah, yeah. I think it is at the end of the day, it's a mindset, Brad. Totally. And and the mindset is can I live my life through a series of experiments which using your own words take me from a comfort zone to an uncomfortable zone. Stretching your limits. And enjoy the process.

Brian (Host) 45:27

Enjoy the process. Right? It's not the result, it's it's the process that is really, you know, that makes it the experience. Yeah. That's awesome.

Prakash (Guest) 45:40

Very true. Very true.

Brian (Host) 45:41

Yeah, yeah. I I love that. Food, food is super important. I love food and culture is just amazing. So going and trying different things in different places is just it's exciting, but there are a lot of people that don't find that exciting whatsoever. And I you're right, it's a mindset, right? Like being able, you know, uh a couple of couple podcast episodes, that you know, one of the episodes was about being curious, you know, being curious about life. And that's what came to my mind when you were talking about being willing to experiment, being willing to to to go beyond your limits, right? Is it's also a level of curiosity, right? Like being curious about not just yourself, but what's out there. Like what's how what's gonna happen, what's and and how am I gonna figure out how to make it work? You know, that level of curiosity to experiment is uh I think it's a really good mindset. And it's helpful for people to to know that if you're really gonna grow, you have to stretch yourself. You you know, you know, it and instead of it being that someone's forcing you to change, forcing you into that situation, you make the decision yourself, right? Because then you you're solidify, you're solidifying who you are versus you know, and you have control versus you not having control uh until later on through the through the circumstance. Uh and I think that's really important. And and I think uh that's something that people miss.

Prakash (Guest) 47:16

Yeah, and and and um uh finally, uh I'm I'm sure, Brian, you have heard of the longitudinal study of the marshmallow test, right?

Brian (Host) 47:26

No, no, what is this marshmallow? No, I am not. I'm I'm intrigued.

Prakash (Guest) 47:30

I I I don't I don't know uh where it was conducted, somewhere in in in the US university. So I think you should watch some of the YouTube videos. These are these are young kids who are given one marshmallow, and uh the the facilitator actually tells them that after one minute or two minutes I will come back, and if you have not touched the marshmallow, I will give you one more marshmallow. So this is so tempting, right? I mean, you've got a nice marshmallow sitting in front of you. So according to that longitudinal study, and they've tracked all these kids who became adults

The Marshmallow Test And Patience

Prakash (Guest) 48:15

and how successful they became, etc. Apparently, people who were put into that uncomfortable situation and who did not taste the marshmallow and who opted to clench their teeth and stay there for that whole two minutes or five minutes, I don't know, whatever that time was, they were rewarded with a additional marshmallow, and they were able to eat two instead of one. They actually went on to become some great people in their life, right? So this really proves the point that this this whole thing that we started with saying that can you can you bear the pain for the short term or the long-term gain? Right. What is it that is that is building? What is the what is the internal strength that these situations which you put yourself, like you said, voluntarily put yourself in, what exactly are they building in you? Obviously, they're building certain pathways in you which help you to kind of take on more challenging situations. You never know what is going to come in the future, right? So it gives you that confidence and the perseverance to take on anything that comes your way.

Brian (Host) 49:41

Yeah, I you I've heard of this study, but I heard of it with uh chocolate. They had put a chocolate in front of a kid, and and it the other piece of it was delayed gratification versus instant gratification.

Prakash (Guest) 49:55

That's right. That's right.

Brian (Host) 49:56

Right? Like, so if you can, like you said, if you can hold on, right? If you can hold on through and suffer through the pain of not eating it right away, you'll be rewarded, right? But all those kids that couldn't, you know, then they didn't get it. So the instant gratification versus the delay gratification, it's huge right now because we live in a world of instant, right? Like anything we, you know, our phones, computers, like AI, robotics, everything's going crazy. Everything is about now, right now. Um, and there's so few things that are about you gotta wait. You know, you gotta you gotta let it percolate, you gotta let it grow before you can actually use it versus it, it grows right now. Right, absolutely. Yeah, it's such a it we're we're living in such an interesting time of this being, you know, like how do you let something grow um without, you know, without taking without the you know, without taking it halfway, because it's not gonna grow to its full length, right? It's only gonna sit there. So this the you know, delay gratification, instant gratification, being uncomfortable for a certain amount of time to being able to have that comfort and seeing really good results later down the road in the long term. Ah, I think that's huge. There's a huge nugget there. Uh based upon our time, it's kind of we're kind of gonna wrap it up. What would you like to share with our audience um as we close out our conversation?

Prakash (Guest) 51:35

Yeah, I think I think the the whole mantra of what we unpack today, I think uh can be summarized um by saying that don't take life so seriously. Life is a series of experiments. Be willing to experiment, enjoy the process of experimentation. Even if some of those experiments put you in uncomfortable zones. And when you and I'm I'm hundred percent sure of this, when you when you look back uh at the end of your life, you would be really grateful that you really put yourself in some uncomfortable situations.

Closing Mantra And Final Takeaways

Brian (Host) 52:28

Awesome, awesome. Thank you so much for this conversation. This is for me, this is super timely. This is a great conversation. I needed this and um amazing, amazing. I hope that you write something about this. I think this would be a beautiful series of stories to share, and so much, so much depth in those stories of uh moving and transitioning and and growing through uncomfortableness. I I just it would be an amazing story. I would buy that hands down. So please share them, continue sharing those stories. That's it's just amazing for past. Thank you so much.

Prakash (Guest) 53:06

Thank you, Brian, for that suggestion, and thank you for having me here on your show. And and I hope uh the audience gets some benefit out of our conversation.

Brian (Host) 53:21

Thank you for listening to What Makes Us. Make sure to rate or review this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or send it to a friend who you think will enjoy this podcast. Thank you for sharing your time, and see you soon.